Hammer wrote:Fun video...thanks.

VTOSS wrote:... I've also done some side float flying and it would be a bit awkward for the PAX to see the pilot in a helmet....

I think this is a factor for a lot of pilots. Having com-equipped helmets for all pax is pretty expensive and bulky, and it's a bit strange to wear one while you give your pax nothing but a headset.

I'm all for people wearing helmets if they want to, regardless of what their pax think. I'd happily wear one if I had one, but I guess I just don't see enough risk to justify the cost. Like a lot of people, I'm really not willing to sacrifice my audio environment, so any helmet would have to equal the acoustic excellence of my lightspeed headsets, and not give me a headache during a three-hour flight. A pretty expensive helmet, in other words.

Then there's the issue of how much security you're actually getting for your money. Helmets worn for bicycling or rollerblading or kayaking are much more likely to be successful in their mission because these are endeavors where low impact head strikes are somewhat common, and a helmet can easily be the difference between getting up and walking away verses not. In a plane crash a helmet certainly could make a difference, but the energy levels (including fuel) are such that it very well might not matter in the end. You arguably get a lot more security for your dollar with a bike helmet.

The exposure to injury we face in our automobiles is vastly higher than in our airplanes, but you don't see anyone wearing helmets in their Toyotas. That's not to say you shouldn't wear a helmet in the airplane if you want to, but for most of us it's not the highest risk environment we operate in. Pilots pushing the envelope of off-field operations are obviously in a different category.

Very well put Hammer. Also surprising that none here has touched on the broken neck part of the equation. The added weight on your head in a sudden stop and theres a good chance you break your neck. Seen it lots with horseback riding when helmets started to become a thing there. Less brain injury, but more paralysis and such from broken necks. Choices choices, and no guarantees.

I enjoyed your video and you've given me a lot to think about. I am 6' 1" and it is a fairly tight fit right now in my C180 just with a bose headset. I also like the sound quality of the bose headsets so I would have to try a bonehead or other type of helmet out first to see if it is even practical and tolerable for a long flight.

I remember reading the article below a few years ago and thinking I should do this for my bird. Your video makes me think using an airbag seat belt system might be the way to go. It would protect the passengers and not look as intimidating. Definitely a lot more money for the airbags, but not much in the grand scheme of things in the aviation world. I put the sportsman STOL kit on a month after I bought my airplane. The sole reason was safety - better glide ratio and slower touchdown speed.



https://www.aviationconsumer.com/safety ... effective/


Josh

Thought provoking but it could go on and on. HANS devices, airbags , nomex clothing, gloves.

Perception of risk is very subjective. I read of a neurosurgeon who wears a helmet in his Volvo on snowy or icy days. He might well know more than I do.

Iv pretty much made my choices. Helmet on motorbikes and mountain bikes, not skiing unless working when I have to, not in the plane or car or boat.

I didn't use a helmet when I started teaching myself to hang glide, but did after a few hard knocks. All through my ultralight years, helmets were a given, especially the ones with a flip down visor, as we had no windshields. Then when I got my first "real" airplane, I've never worn a helmet while flying since, funny, not ha ha funny though, how that works. Until lately, when bike riding on steep rocky trails, and it helped me in a bad fall a couple years ago, at least it, instead of my head, got scratched up pretty good. I don't wear one snowboarding. Not against them at all, just have not gotten around to one , yet.

A little nostalgia with your head protection: https://www.flighthelmet.com/product/PR55-HGU55KL.html

Great discussions by everyone. Mission Accomplished.

jugheadF15 wrote:Great discussions by everyone. Mission Accomplished.

Also, we should play some hockey sometime.

-DP

denalipilot wrote:

jugheadF15 wrote:Great discussions by everyone. Mission Accomplished.

Also, we should play some hockey sometime.

-DP

DP, I'll be back in ANC 26 Dec and 29 Dec. Are you close?

qmdv wrote:Good presentation. My friend Burk flew up the wrong canyon gong to Big Creek. Could not out fly the terrain. On impact he banged his head on the doorpost. Never woke up. Two things would have been nice to have that day. Shoulder harnesses and a helmet

I hit my head so hard on the door post one day that I was glad that I had another pilot in the right seat. Clear air turbulence.

gbflyer wrote:

qmdv wrote:Good presentation. My friend Burk flew up the wrong canyon gong to Big Creek. Could not out fly the terrain. On impact he banged his head on the doorpost. Never woke up. Two things would have been nice to have that day. Shoulder harnesses and a helmet

I hit my head so hard on the door post one day that I was glad that I had another pilot in the right seat. Clear air turbulence.

I think that in severe turbulence a helmet would be handy. I have seen plenty of aircraft wreckage pictures and it is obvious that a helmet would be of no value. In an engine out situation where you slow the plane way down and mush it into some trees a helmet would be very desirable.

jugheadF15 wrote:

denalipilot wrote:

jugheadF15 wrote:Great discussions by everyone. Mission Accomplished.

Also, we should play some hockey sometime.

-DP

DP, I'll be back in ANC 26 Dec and 29 Dec. Are you close?

I'm a couple hundred miles north, although I'l be passing through ANC on the 28th (en route to Toronto for hockey stuff, actually). Except for tournaments we mostly skate outdoors on ponds and the local outdoor rink. The Last Frontier Pond Hockey Classic being a notable exception.

More on-topic, I really approve of the video, and appreciate the style in which it was done. Awesome PSA. I've taken some stitches in the head because I used to figure I didn't need a kayak helmet for ocean surf- (wrong). I bought a David Clark shell early on, and decided shortly after that I wanted more protection than that. So I bought my first real flying helmet from one of the posters on this very thread. Then I picked up a second one from another BCP'er- specifically so I would have one for me and one for a passenger. With the first one, I had ANR installed by Headsets Inc and was very pleased with the service and results. We have a lot of agency and contract pilots around here, so helmets are probably a lot more commonplace than Outside. We also have lots of cold temps and low-angle sun, and helmets and visors can be great for both. As any flight has the potential to go sideways, I really ought to follow your lead and wear a helmet as standard equipment. As it is, I grab them when I know I'm headed somewhere "sporty", or when I was breaking in a new engine, etc. You've given me reason to reconsider.

Back to hockey and backcountry flying, this is my holy grail, or at least one of them:

I don't think comparing our risks to a standard automobile is a an accurate one. Cars have airbags and those make a huge difference in terms of hitting your head on the dash, steering wheel, etc. Cars with roll cages require driver/passenger to wear helmets (at least on the track) because you now have metal bars within striking distance of your head.

I would assume in an airplane would be comparable to a car with no airbags and a roll cage. I study head injury for a living so maybe my view is twisted but a helmet in our environment seems like a good idea. And it sounds better the more targets you have to impact in the cabin (ex, V brace).

I haven't gotten around to researching the options out there, but I would agree that being able to use a standard aviation headset would be a critical feature.

hamer wrote:I don't think comparing our risks to a standard automobile is a an accurate one. Cars have airbags and those make a huge difference in terms of hitting your head on the dash, steering wheel, etc. Cars with roll cages require driver/passenger to wear helmets (at least on the track) because you now have metal bars within striking distance of your head.

I would assume in an airplane would be comparable to a car with no airbags and a roll cage. I study head injury for a living so maybe my view is twisted but a helmet in our environment seems like a good idea. And it sounds better the more targets you have to impact in the cabin (ex, V brace).

I haven't gotten around to researching the options out there, but I would agree that being able to use a standard aviation headset would be a critical feature.

Cars that require helmets also require a HAAS device to keep you neck from breaking due to the extra weight being thrown forward with your body being strapped back. Think Dale Earnhardt. Maybe we are going slow enough to not need a HAAS? But there has been a number of cropduster accidents that ended with broken necks, so there is that. I do think that airbag seatbelts are better then a helmet for overall safety.

Frankly, I see way too many people flying airplanes with poor to crappy or NO shoulder harnesses. Fixing that should be your first task. The FAA and NTSB recognized that several years ago, and made it easier to install proper harness.

I have a BAS harness in my Cessna. A BAS harness saved my life once in an accident. In that case a helmet would have done no good, and may have caused neck injuries. Remember, adding weight to your noggin means more potential for acceleration damage.

Having flown for an agency that required helmets (and other PPE) for “high risk) operations, I’ve flown with helmets for several thousand hours. I have no interest in wearing one now. Frankly, in my opinion, unless you are using a high quality Aviation helmet, you may be fooling yourself as to its effectiveness in a crash. MAYBE.

And if you’re wearing a high quality aviators helmet, you may be risking cervical damage in an accident sequence. MAYBE.

Turbulence? How many of you cinch down your lap belts after you’ve been flying for a while? Most cushions allow you to settle a bit, leaving slack in lap belts. Your lap belts are your best protection from hitting the ceiling, and I was in a bit of very nasty turbulence yesterday myself.....no problem with tight belts.

Finally, the question of what to do about passengers: Helmets (and to a much lesser extent headsets) MUST fit the head properly to be effective. And, remember, a helmet needs to fit the head well to provide impact protection, AND also to ensure good sound attenuation. In my experience, it can take a lot of fiddling around including trial and error to get a helmet to fit well.

So, if you’re always flying with the same person (s), it may be practical to properly fit them each with a helmet. But I can tell you from experience that wearing even a barely ill fitting helmet is a very miserable experience.

So, if wearing a helmet while flying makes you more comfortable, I suggest you invest in a good quality helmet, get it fitted properly and wear it.

Since my aircraft has neither ejection sears nor a rotor system, (the primary reasons aviators wear helmets) I’ll stick with good quality ANR headsets.

MTV

Denali

Oh I've seen the Pond Classic and would love to come play in Scotty's event. I love skating the lakes in ANC and JNU when I'm on layover.

What a great video. We billet for our local WHL team.

FWIW, helmets do not increase spine injuries in the kinds of scenarios that pilots are exposed to (i.e. front impact).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21768134

rw2 wrote:FWIW, helmets do not increase spine injuries in the kinds of scenarios that pilots are exposed to (i.e. front impact).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21768134

I don't think you can compare a motorcycle to an airplane. You are not strapped to a bike. With a shoulder harness you are strapped and your body cannot move forward with your head. Not to mention that you can look up ag plane crashes that had neck injuries while wearing helmets.

rw2 wrote:FWIW, helmets do not increase spine injuries in the kinds of scenarios that pilots are exposed to (i.e. front impact).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21768134

Not trying to be argumentative at all, but there is significant potential for sideways forces when a wingtip catches a tree or the ground. All in all I think I'd take my chances with a helmet given the choice...any impact violent enough to break my neck with a helmet probably isn't going to go well without one, either. Overall I think a person is undoubtably safer with a helmet, though there will be times that it can work against them.

I agree with daeduluscan that risk modification is an almost unlimited rabbit hole and everyone has to come to their own conclusions about what's worth doing and what isn't. If I purchased every safety device I thought was relevant to flight I'd be completely safe, because I wouldn't have any money left to get airborne.

It wasn't too many decades ago people had to be convinced to wear a headset.

First off, thanks Jughead for posting the video and for the follow on discussion from everyone. I just adopted nomex flight suits for use flying the T-6 this year because of peer pressure. Besides the fire safety properties all those pockets are damn handy and made me wish I had done it five years ago. I have not suited up for flying the Citabria because it still feels odd.

A helmet was next on my list after reading an older thread on this forum. That would be for both the T-6 and the Citabria (for any off airport operations). At first I leaned towards the air force style (HGU 55?) until I learned that it doesn't really offer much in the way of crash protection (it's a good "bump cap" from what I read), but the similar looking helicopter version definitely does offer some head protection.

lownslow79 wrote:

qmdv wrote:What helmets out there let you use your own expensive already paid for headset

Sky cowboy supply makes a mod for the Team Wendy EXFIL SAR helmets. Google search brings sky cowboy supply up. They have an adapter that fits DC 10.0 series headsets, BOSE and Light Speed. The thing I like it Team Wendy has done some serious innovation and engineering for noggin protection and the helmet is light weight. I would never spend $1000+ for a aviation helmet that didnt meet or exceed some kind of standard testing for protection. Team Wendy is involved in designing military tactical helmets and all sorts of technical helmets which meet and exceed to new standards for protection. $399

Thanks for posting that. That Team Wendy EXFIL SAR Tactical, LTP or Carbon all seem like affordable options allowing you to use your existing headset. Since I'm a long term user of Peltor headsets it looks like I can adapt them easily. Now I don't feel like such a weirdo for owning them (they're much more comfortable than the DCs and are quieter by quite a ways).

Been wearing an okay helmet for a few years now, though TBH I've gotten lazy about taking it along. It is a little heavy. My head is already pretty large from my huge ego and as a result it kinda feels like an orange on a toothpick at first, but then I get used it and I often forget it's on. My biggest concern is blocking the rear passenger's view because I feel like Dark Helmet from Spaceballs.

I could see how you could tweak your neck with the extra mass if there wasn't a nice chromoly tube close by to stop the helmet from swinging too far.

A few years ago on a smoky day in the gorge:



As you can see, ANR headsets of choice still in use.

It's kinda like skiing. I didn't really like swapping out my wool toque for a helmet at first, but now I feel naked without it. Still waiting for that feeling in the cockpit.

I do think a lot of fatals are a result of BFT to the head. My nightmare is being knocked unconscious and unable to peel myself out if there's a post-crash fire starting. Then there are the accidents with so much energy you'd need inertial dampeners from the USS Enterprise to prevent your guts from liquifying from the deceleration alone.