I’m wondering if anyone has heard of the Honda engine that can be a substitute for the Rotax 912. There’s a possibility of me buying into a share of Kitfox. The current owners are looking at the Honda engine for the power plant but I haven’t heard much about them. I did a search and found one reference on here, but not a lot of information specific to that engine.

It called the Viking engine, produced by Jan Eggenfellner of Subaru conversion fame (infamy?).

I would hardly call this (unproven) engine a replacement for the Rotax. It is substantially heavier and has very few flying installations, none in a Kitfox at this time. Much would depend on what model Kitfox you are looking at, too. The later models (7 and SS) can handle the weight of this installation the earlier models 1-6 would have weight and balance problems.

Av8r3400 wrote:It called the Viking engine, produced by Jan Eggenfellner of Subaru conversion fame (infamy?).

I would hardly call this (unproven) engine a replacement for the Rotax. It is substantially heavier and has very few flying installations, none in a Kitfox at this time. Much would depend on what model Kitfox you are looking at, too. The later models (7 and SS) can handle the weight of this installation the earlier models 1-6 would have weight and balance problems.

Wow thanks so much for the info and rapid response time.

Well said Av8,,,.. the company promoting it has an "interesting" history to say thr least

It's amazing how powerful the name Honda is. It seems to attract people to this conversion engine more than any other aspect of the product. In fact it uses "Honda engine internals," to what extent, I'm not sure. I did hear that they are USED engines from the Honda Fit hatchbacks that have been wrecked. Perhaps that's a rumor? I'm not sure where else they would source the engines.

It might be an amazing engine under there, but half the product you're buying is the integration engineering and the PSRU (propeller speed reduction unit-- the gearbox) which is custom made.

courierguy wrote:Well said Av8,,,.. the company promoting it has an "interesting" history to say thr least

x3

There was an outfit years ago called Canadian Air Motive (CAM), who produced a 100hp aviation conversion of the 4-cyl 12 valve Honda (Civic?) engine. They had one installed in a Malcolm Merlin demonstrator airplane, on which there was a very favorable review in Sport Pilot/Hot Kits & Homebuilts magazine. Honda cars have a well-deserved good reputation for reliability, but the CAM 100 just never seemed to take off (so to speak). This was the heyday of the Subaru conversions which were produced by several outfits (at that time, most notably Stratus & NSI), and the Honda conversion just sorta got lost in the shuffle.
BTW that same Sport Pilot magazine later featured an article written by our very own Courier Guy about his first (subaru-powered) S7.

Cam 100 guys were given a grant by the govmt to develop, then they hoped to sell for lots of money. The two guys were old as the hills back 8 years ago, I don't know if they are still with us. I don't know if anyone ever had that Co in production. You called up to see if you could buy a psru and they tried to sell you the whole shebang.

I'd go LSA or Experimental if I knew I could put an R1 engine on the nose. I know where I can find engine parts very cheap

58Skylane wrote:I'd go LSA or Experimental if I knew I could put an R1 engine on the nose. I know where I can find engine parts very cheap

Not quite an R1 but a close relative. The Genesis snowmobile engine probably has better characteristics. This guy has done lots of R&D but looks like he pulled back from developing a commercial conversion business.
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16100

I was curious about the Viking engine for my S7 so when we were at Sun n Fun I stopped at their display. I talked to 2 different guys there and neither guy seemed to know very much about the engine. Nor did either of them seemed to be that interested in even talking to me. Nice looking engine but I also am familiar with the company's history and I am not impressed.
I too would like to save money on the engine and have considered some of the less expensive (cheaper) options. Even though I think the Rotax 912 is over priced, it's still the best bang for the buck. I've had the experience of an engine failure and crashing the plane with the total loss of the investment. At least I lived through it!
So I believe, the more money you save on a cheap engine will leave you more money to spend on a good funeral!

Beaver550 wrote:

58Skylane wrote:I'd go LSA or Experimental if I knew I could put an R1 engine on the nose. I know where I can find engine parts very cheap

Not quite an R1 but a close relative. The Genesis snowmobile engine probably has better characteristics. This guy has done lots of R&D but looks like he pulled back from developing a commercial conversion business.
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16100

Cool! I send that link to our snowmobile guy. Thanks.

flybymike wrote:So I believe, the more money you save on a cheap engine will leave you more money to spend on a good funeral!

That's the best line ever, as far as experimental aircraft motors are concerned.

flybymike wrote: I was curious about the Viking engine for my S7 so when we were at Sun n Fun I stopped at their display. I talked to 2 different guys there and neither guy seemed to know very much about the engine. Nor did either of them seemed to be that interested in even talking to me......

That's a shame. That sort of thing has I'm sure cost companies a lot of sales. I wonder if they were someone in the company, or just bodies recruited to man the display while the real guy (the one that actually knew something) was off eating lunch or whatever?

New Member here.
Interesting how much play on various forums a few critics get.
But you cannot find anyone complaining who actually is flying behind the engine.
Rather, these guys are super pleased.

I doubt Rotax is worried, but it is good to have an alternative.

I have been following the Viking Engine for the past six months. Trying to put together shared ownership and a Community College build project. The Zenith CH 750 has been our first choice.

Regarding the Viking Honda Engine....
Here is a post from Jan Eggenfellner, the developer of the Viking Engine.
Jan explains very clearly where the engines come from and how they are built up as new aircraft engines.

Re: honda engine Posted by: jeggenfellner
Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:19 pm
All engines are 2009 or newer Honda Fit models. We only use the Block and head.
The Honda Fit is what is consider a non-rebuildable car. Any damage at all and
it is off to the salvage yard. We buy anything that become available with low
mileage and no damage. The engines are then disassembled and brought to new
standards. An oil sample is also sent for analyses to further determine the
condition of the core engines. Jan

The Viking website has a complete photo layout of the entire engine in pieces, along with technical details on crankshaft, pistons, etc.
Jan sold 80 engines in the last production cycle for nearly a dozen different aircraft. Impressive.

Some comments on another forum tied back to a disgruntled SeaRey owner who launched a very sour tale against Jan.
The conclusion made was "Stay Clear".

As a CPA, I understand what it takes to build a business.
I would suggest readers also consider that this story surely has another side. And, to his credit, Jan never responded in kind.

To see what Jan is capable of doing with the SeaRey, go to the website and catch up.
A customized mount and cowling is just about done. There are good customers and bad customers. Enough said.

Finally, take a look at what Casey Lyons has to say about the work done on his Sonex. Casey swapped out an AeroVee for the Viking.
Jan stepped in and designed a new cowling and other drag reducing measures. The results were super.
The Viking powered Sonex will do 168-170 mph under the exact same conditions. (Max continuous rpm, 2 people, sea level, etc.)

Watching Jan continuously upgrade the Viking Engine the past six months, albeit after a slow start and some verrry long delays, the attention to quality is obvious.

If I get the finances in place, no doubt about the engine choice.
Cheers
Rmmm (Guam)

Jan does produce a very nice looking engine package with ALOT of bling.......... I will stop right there with any further comments..

If you are looking to put it in a kitfox, the 5,6,7 and SS are all the same size and have the same gross weight limitations, except for early 5's with the thinner wing spares. I think they were limited to 1200 vs the 1550 lbs of the later models. I think the engine mount and cowling would be a pain in the butt, but you should do it, so we all know if it works or not.

Wasn't there an airplane called a Lightning Bug that had some small 100hp engine? Rumor had somebody called Thunder Aviation putting another turbo'd 107hp engine in it that weighed 130lb.

I can't believe, that with supposedly nearly fifty Viking 110 engines already delivered, that there is such a dearth of pireps on these things. Sure doesn't make me warm and fuzzy about possibly buying one.

Karmutzen wrote:Wasn't there an airplane called a Lightning Bug that had some small 100hp engine? Rumor had somebody called Thunder Aviation putting another turbo'd 107hp engine in it that weighed 130lb.

http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forum ... beans.html

Thunder Aviation was a second wind attempt at selling the Motavia. It was a short lived effort. The site no longer worked by August of this year. It was a vertical auto engine design with a short gearbox that did not elevate the prop high enough to get the engine below sightline. The auto style conversions need more refinement than this.

At least in the Viking, the engine was rotated to about 80 degrees on its side to lower the head below sightline, giving visibility and raising the prop in relation to the high point of the engine and providing prop clearance. Like the old Chrysler slant six designs.

Addition: Thread on owner of Lightning Bug/Thunder engines jumps to here. http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forum ... ently.html

Sounds like a possible con artist scenario. Approach with caution.