As a non-owner myself at the moment, I've come to a couple of personal conclusions I'd like to offer up to this discussion. Feel free to take them with a grain of salt, since I haven't claimed ownership of any aircraft (yet):

1) I don't fly much as a renter, which makes it hard to justify break-even points from that standpoint. It simply doesn't pencil out on paper on an hours/year basis. My presumption is that I would fly MUCH more by owning a plane. I find renting inconvenient for the things I'd like to do (fly-in camping, trips to off-airport locations, trips to less-than-paved strips, trips where I'd park the plane at a destination for a week, or even just last minute flights I'd like to take locally on a nice afternoon without having to deal with scheduling).

2) Flying in the general aviation sphere is, for the overwhelming majority of us, a recreational experience. It's very hard to justify from a cost perspective (as are recreational boats, horses, campers, time shares vacation rentals, and many of the other things that middle class Americans like me spend money on). But, we all need to know whether or not we can actually afford this hobby.

AvidFlyer wrote:FWIW you and the wife can have a lot more fun for a LOT cheaper flying something like a Kitfox or Highlander over a 172. I can't carry much and it takes me forever to get there but I still manage to make it to the backcountry for pretty affordable.

By the time I reached your post in this thread I was already thinking the same thing for myself. It would seem that costs can be cut significantly by flying a small and light airplane with an engine that is designed for cheaper mogas, especially when the hourly fuel burn is very reasonable with those planes. Plus, I imagine that I could save a good bit on hangar fees by owning an airplane with folding wings that I could stick in my garage (the jeep can live in the driveway). The costs savings is probably more pronounced if I build it myself, and can thereby work on it myself.

I guess what all of this means for me (personally) is that I really need to do some soul searching regarding the type of flight capability I'll really need. How much load capacity do I *really* need? How fast do I *really* need to go? How much will I fly a cheaper-to-operate aircraft versus a more costly one? For me, I'm still very intrigued by the somewhat larger backcountry vehicles that are often talked about around here: Cessna 180's/170's, Stinsons, Maules, etc. But, I can certainly see some cost-cutting potential by flying a Kitfox or a Highlander. It could very well be that I'm being naive on this subject, but I've also found myself trying to pencil things out like the original poster, and often started with the C172 as my benchmark for comparison.

I absolutely agree. Anymore, my desire for a 172 is dead.

BUT - Not the dreams of ownership! ;p Basically Windknots ideas were very influential. It makes no sense for me to replicate the capability that the club provides me with. I really love my club, I think they're very fair and reasonable. Scheduling is also very easy.

So, the question is, what do I want THAT THE CLUB DOESN'T PROVIDE. This would be a tailwheel, and the kind of low & slow flying that this forum makes me yearn for. For that reason, I'm looking much more closely at a Cessna 140. I like that it has flaps (unlike the 120) and is really nice looking (unlike the 150). Of course a 170 or 180 has much more capability, but when I was thinking about them, I couldn't get myself away from the nose wheel. Also, the 140 is very reasonably priced.

you should fly a 140 - then go fly a pacer and a j3 cub - and then a champ and a taylorcraft and a luscombe. pacers/champs/tcarts are very good flyers and very good value. I think the pacer is the best value of the bunch - a small 4-place with side-by-side - nice for the occasional 2 up campmobile - but also a very reasonable single hand flyer.

Of course I bought a cub cause they fly like a dream - more money than sense....

I went through this kind of mental gymnastics for the last two years. I finally got to the point of sitting down and being honest with what my requirements where, and what I was willing to spend. If the weather's fit, I hope to bring my Taylorcraft home this Fri. or Sat. It's not that I couldn't afford more, but I finally figured out that it wasn't necessary for me to strain the finances on something that I wasn't going use. 99% of my flying is going to be solo, the wife unit has already told me that on non-negotiable terms. I've got a dual-sport BMW motorcycle that I use for weekend trips so I know how to pack lite. I'll have the speed (kind-of) and range to go to the places I want to. There's a 160 hp Clipper that might be coming up for sale at my home airport that really piqued my interest, but at twice the purchase price, fuel burn and insurance I had to ask myself if I really needed it. The resounding answer was no.

I don't know if this helps or not, but I thought I'd throw it out for those on the fence like I was.

I better add, my situation may be a little different due to the fact that there are no flying clubs around my area and renting a 172 from a FBO north of me is very expensive and extremely limited due to the local collage.

I will chime in with some realizations I have had after selling my 59' C182. I bought the 182 when living in Moab, UT and there were no rentals. Life changed and I found myself back in Phoenix where there is a plethora of rental options and clubs. From 182's at $130 per hr wet, Cessna 140 $50 dry, Super Cubs $105 wet, Too many Cirrus' to fly to count and it goes on. I was flying my 182 a couple times a months once I was here as there is a lot of things my wife and I like to do on the weekends (dogs, mountain bikes, work on our historic house, blah blah blah). Well, I have not flown since I sold the 182. I believe this is because, well going out and doing the rental thing prevents me from just flying somewhere.

I have all my ratings to be a professional pilot and could be working as one, but I have more time/money not flying for a living since the 200k 10 day a month airline pilot jobs were a figment of my childhood dreams. So I don't need to build time/etc.

As others said, there is no justification of enjoyment flying. So for me I learned that if I want to fuel the passion, ownership is the way to keep me in it. I just like owning a plane and I would fly a lot more if I had it there. My search will re-continue in the next 6 months.

back to the OP question, don't even try to figure break even, as there are endless unknown costs -- but you very well might find yourself flying a lot more when you own vs. rent.

nefj40 wrote: If the weather's fit, I hope to bring my Taylorcraft home this Fri. or Sat.

Well there you go!! I'm thinkin' you done good mister. Pictures!!

I hope I did good.

What a scream, it's home and I'm giggling like a school girl. Cheaper than a clapped-out pickup at the local dealership to boot.

nefj40 wrote:What a scream, it's home and I'm giggling like a school girl. Cheaper than a clapped-out pickup at the local dealership to boot.

I'm calling bullshit till we see PHOTOS!!!! Seriously though.....congrats!!!! I was worried there for a while when I saw he wasn't returning your phone calls!!!!