Had this from somewhere

Right out of the catalog and on my wing!


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Well, don't bring this up on the Cessna 170 website, cause you'll get a storm of protest from certain "personages" over there, but....a smart mechanic can easily improve ground handling and steering effectiveness on a 170. The later airplanes (I believe the 1954?? airplanes) had much better steering geometry, but mine is a 52 and if anything, it steers TOO well on the ground.

All the advice to date is good. For the view over the nose on final, spend some of that really bad weather time sitting in the cockpit, getting a perspective of what it should look like three point. It's okay to make airplane noises while doing so.

Work on three points first, but then transition to wheel landings, preferably tail low wheel landings. The 170 just loves wheel landings, and is a real sweetheart in that mode, but it takes a little practice.

The flaps are huge compared to what you're used to, so pay attention to them. THey are great tools, just different.

Lots of little things to learn on any airplane, especially old ones. As noted, the Pilot Handbook for this airplane with the bigger engine is essentially useless, but glean what you can from it, then make your own data as you go along.

Most of all, have fun.

MTV

Thanks for all the tips/input. Keep it coming.

We have the BAS handles, Dan Wilson took care of that for us, and we have those nifty jump seats in the back that conveniently and very easily just fold up to the sides and are adjustable, can be moved forward and aft, which will certainly affect weight and balances (if and when we carry passnegers.) Dan also showed me his current W&B calculations and we will look those over carefully at annual.

For my checkride in the 140 I ended up making my own W&B chart and graph. I went through all the old logs, the old superceded numbers and everything added on, and where, since the last certified measurements and came up with what I can only guess was a good approximation of an accurate W&B for the plane. The examiner seemed somewhat impressed.

With him and me (and he was a little lighter then Hammer) to be within limits we had to fly with 3/4 fuel. I think me, Hammer and full fuel we run about 50 lbs over gross. Thank goodness for the bigger engine, and now the bigger plane.

Today looks like it's going to turn out to be a beautiful sunny day, and I've gotta go to work Besides, the plane is in pieces waiting for our faithful field mechanic. The seats are out so I can't even sit in it and make vroom, vroom flying noises while looking out over the cowling, which is off. One really good thing I have already learned about owning a part polished aluminum plane is it's a great thing to send Hammer off to do if he or I need Hammer off doing something

One more IMPORTANT modification, if you don't already have them: BAS shoulder harnesses for the front seats.

This is a mod that can save your life.

I've tested them--they work, and they are the best.

MTV

I think an advantage of a 170 or 180 over the 172 and 182 respectivly, is that you can have an extra set of wheels and tires for the mains and put on small tire with pants for those longer trips where the speed will com in handy and then a set of bushwheels for the somer months.

Here are some good looking pants for that 170B

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cessna-1 ... enameZWDVW

Tim

mtv wrote:One more IMPORTANT modification, if you don't already have them: BAS shoulder harnesses for the front seats.

These are on my short list too. My old AeroFabricators shoulder harnesses have to be sloppy to get on the flaps. I'd have to make a lightning quick cinch-down to save my pretty face, and that's probably not gonna happen.

Also on my shortlist is the Whelen strobe kit.

1SeventyZ wrote: I'd have to make a lightning quick cinch-down to save my pretty face, and that's probably not gonna happen.

Pretty face. As if. This guy is no birthday cake. I have met him.

After the kidding, it is important to note that Berk smashed his head on his door post. I do not have the BAS harness, I have the Cessna harness. I tried to cinch up my harness real tight and with it like that it would be impossible to to hit the door post but also imposible to reach flap handle.


Tim

The BAS retractable shoulder harnesses are already on the top of our gift list. Next birthday/anniversary/frivolous Hallmark holiday to arrive once we get the 140 sold and the sinkhole created by the purchase of the 170 sealed off, that's what we're buying eachother/ourselves.

Gift giving is simple when you both want the same thing and it's for the plane. And if there isn't anything we want, we just by avgas.

Sunny skies and annual complete we have now had a chance to fly the 170B.

I got signed off to fly it alone in just under 2 hours. Having nothing really to compare it with or to, knowing only the ways the big engine 140, these are my observations: it is amazingly quiet, it is incredibly light and easy on the controls, it climbs like nothing I've ever known, and it is COMFORTABLE.

The view over the cowling isn't that much different for me as I have the seat pulled all the way up and in the 140 I had to use a booster seat I made out of memory foam padding ace wrapped around an old styrofoam boogy board I found on the side of the road so I could sit in the plane and reach the controls with Hammer in the right seat; he is a foot taller then I am.

The landing is what is giving us a little bit of a challenge. It is bouncy; bounce, bounce, bounce. I can't tell if it is the 850 tires, too much air, too little, or the landing gear; I couldn't blame it on the winds as there have been none. I think I am flaring just a bit too high and then it doesn't seem to want to come down, so you think okay, we're easing her down nicely and then "bounce." The CFI who signed me off wants me to get down the three point landing first (that's how he taught me in the 140) and my idea is to put a 50 lb bag of road salt in the back like many of you guys are doing in your pick-up trucks this time of year, just to get that tail down and keep it down.

So it's out for more practice today and I think I'm going to work on wheel landings and see how that goes.

Only complaint I have is everywhere we land we spend at least an hour while folks gather around and ogle. She is a looker.

snoopydoc wrote:
The landing is what is giving us a little bit of a challenge. It is bouncy; bounce, bounce, bounce. I can't tell if it is the 850 tires, too much air, too little, or the landing gear;

The 170 gear are soft and springy. That's nice if anything is rough, but they'll bounce you! The gear are much more a factor than tires.

Does it have any wing alterations like VG's or leading edge cuff? I flew a 170B/180hp that had a STOL wing kit, and it was easy to balloon until I started rolling out slower.

Oh, jeeez, here I go pissing people off again.....

You mean to tell me that your CFI turned you loose in that thing WITHOUT a complete checkout? Does your insurance carrier know about this?

A complete checkout in ANY tailwheel airplane involves mastery of:

a) Normal and Crosswind landings
b) Three point landings
c) Wheel landings (if the manufacturer does not prohibit wheel landings--Cessna did not for the 170).

So, what part of that did your instructor NOT cover?

I'd find another instructor, spend some time with him or her, get three points DOWN PAT first, then spend some time getting wheel landings DOWN PAT, then work on crosswinds.

As a former 140 person, it shouldn't take much, but you really should have a firm handle on all these before you go off on your own.

My opinion, for what its worth.

MTV

snoopydoc wrote:S

...and my idea is to put a 50 lb bag of road salt in the back like many of you guys are doing in your pick-up trucks this time of year, just to get that tail down and keep it down.

You jest but you should try it. It really helps with the CG to have weight in the back and makes the three point landing much tamer in our birds!

Of course my survival pack is almost as heavy, and in the winter I seldom have to worry about additional "ballast" (wing covers, preheater, etc.)

snoopydoc wrote:my idea is to put a 50 lb bag of road salt in the back

Yikes! How about something non-corrosive, especially if it's getting jostled around on landing!!?

It's great to have another 170 flyer (two, actually) in the club, and like you, mine is a whole lot more plane than what I had before, I'm still very happy with it. I've got to agree with MTV that wheelie technique is imperative. One shortcoming of the 170s is that that low, round tail doesn't have any too much rudder authority in a 3-point attitude, when the air that's hitting it is all disturbed from the forward airframe and wings. All things being equal, I like to keep it up in the clean slipstream on landing.

Zane wrote:The 170 gear are soft and springy.

There's also a lot of threads out there on this topic. I've only ever flown mine on 180 gear, which has been good to me on choppy snow and ice, tundra, and rocky, washboarded surfaces. Not suggesting there's any need to change out 170 gear, but there's definitely some opinions out there on the matter.

Most importantly, when do we get to see pictures of your new ride? Belated congratulations, and happy aviating.

Cheers,

DP

I hope my response didn't come across too harsh. My point was that, even though the 140 is pretty similar to the 170, there are enough differences to warrant a good checkout. Insurance requirements are all over the place, though.

What's important, though, is that YOU are comfortable in the plane, in both wheel and three point landings. Each has its place, and the pilot should be comfortable with both.

I hope you are enjoying your new ride.

My airplane has early 180 gear, so it sits quite a bit higher and has much less spring on landing, which I prefer. That said, I wouldn't change out stock gear if that was what was installed. There were two flavors of main gear installed at the factory, one of which was somewhat stiffer. Many of these planes have had 180 gear installed, though.

Have fun, most of all....

-1 degree here right at the moment and 35 knots of wind from the north. Alberta Clipper coming through. I think my student may cancel for this morning.

MTV

The landing is what is giving us a little bit of a challenge. It is bouncy; bounce, bounce, bounce.

When I first got the 170B, I also bounced down the runway. The plane just kept flying. The problem was that I was approaching too fast and in ground effect had way to much air speed.

I went up and played with a bunch of stalls to get comfortable with how this plane flys slow. Every plane is different and so my numbers won't work for you.

Go to altitude and practice slow flight, get to know the plane up there.

I like a three point landing for the 170, but early in the flair I don't want much flying speed left or the plane floats down the runway. Not much flying speed means I still have enough to avoid a stall.

Every plane and pilot is different, but this worked for me to smooth out the landings. I'm not a CFI, so my $0.02 may be worth what your paying for it.

Bill

Any truth to the 140 and 170 having thesame gear legs?

MTV, You wouldn't like the fact that the first time I ever landed a tail dragger Cessna was on the trip home after I bought it? So far I haven't found any quirks witb the little Cessna. It's about the most honest flying airplane I've flown. Makes you wonder why they quit making them.

a64,

The thing that affects us all in this regard is the folks jumping in a plane with zero experience and wrecking it. That hurts us all, due to insurance costs. Even if the plane wasn't insured, it still goes in the data.

Right now, look at Maules and Huskys, insurance-wise. I can't say this is a factor with Maules, but I can tell you that a LOT of new Husky owners fail to get a good initial checkout, and the accident statistics reflect that.

If you didn't prang it, good on yer .

My concern is with the ethics of the INSTRUCTORS out there, who are approached by a sincere aircraft owner who really does want a thorough checkout, and the instructor gives them a quick checkout, and sends them on their way.

The 140 and 170 legs were not the same. There were also two flavors of 170 legs, the later ones being the so called "lady legs", which were a little stiffer. C-180 legs are MUCH better.

Learn to wheel land that 170--they love wheel landings, and have better forward visibility than perhaps any tailwheel airplane around. Tailwheel steering on stock 170's is so bad, I can't imagine why anyone would three point these things normally. It's possible to improve steering, but takes some monkey motion, and approvals.

MTV

mtv wrote:Tailwheel steering on stock 170's is so bad, I can't imagine why anyone would three point these things normally. It's possible to improve steering, but takes some monkey motion, and approvals.

MTV

Pardon my ignorance. What is monkey motion?