Haven't taken one myself, but EAA offers aircraft workshops which include gas welding (among other things)...just got an email about one in VA today.

@ 260Driver

Haven't taken one myself, but EAA offers aircraft workshops which include gas welding (among other things)...just got an email about one in VA today.

Neat. I am an EAA member and in VA. I see EAA is offering a raffle for a beautiful yellow fabric-covered SuperCub. I am sure with my welding skills i could set fire to the fabric and have it in ruins in no time flat.

Thanks for the tip. I will look into it. I am not far from Frederick, Maryland ( Near Northern Virginia ) where I think they have had many other EAA workshops.

I started out by playing with my Dad's Lincoln buzz box and oxy acetylene equipment, then had some welding in high school. After college, I went back to the farm, realized my welding skills had a lot to be desired in real life applications, so went to a local JC and took a welding course. I am still not a professional welder, but have enough experience to get by. I bought a large MIG welder sometime in the 90's and rarely use the stick anymore.

I am building a new shop this spring and am planning on putting in a small exhaust fan in the welding area. Any suggestions of what to get from any of you that have installed one? Thank you for any suggestions.

Steve

Check Graingers, Farmtek another source, for auto opening shutters with exhaust fans. I have one in my paint room in an outbuilding. You made me think, it's been years now (no major crashes so no repairs) since I've needed that in the paint booth, while I weld in the shop several times a week, maybe I ought to move it. For now just opening up two opposing doors and blocking appropriately with doorstops depending on the outside wind works pretty well.

EAA seems to offer two separate welding courses, one for TIG and the other for Oxyacetylene.

Gas Welding: http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-education-and-resources/eaa-sportair-workshops/eaa-sportair-workshops-courses/gas-welding

TIG http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-education-and-resources/eaa-sportair-workshops/eaa-sportair-workshops-courses/tig-welding

Has anyone taken either of these ? If one plans to go TIG would the gas welding course be of reduced value, or is it worth taking both. I'd rather spend the time and money on an avionics or sheet metal seminar than on a second possibly redundant and less helpful welding course.

Feedback appreciated.

TIG is a lot more versatile than gas welding. The skills are actually similar, and skills from one complement the other.

My gas rig spends most of its time cutting thick steel or preheating weld zones. I use a plasma torch for thin steel. I used to weld a lot with gas until good used electric welding rigs became affordable.

I learned how to weld from using my dad's ox/acet rig he built his Baby Ace homebuilt with in the early '60's. Never had any formal training but later on learned to arc weld with a Lincoln tombstone AC box. Got good enough with it to weld the neck on my '50 panhead and it held up. While serving in the military in a non aviation rate I made friends with a grouchy old Navy Senior Chief who found out I had a private pilots license and he was taking lessons. He showed me the basics on Tig and let me practice all I wanted. We rented a few airplanes together and he got interested in building his own airplane. When I got out of the military (1979)I bought a brand new Miller 250 Dial Arc HF and a used Harley shovelhead with money I had saved. I built a Pitts and repaired and built many fuselages the next 35 years. I have upgraded to a Miller 351 Syncro wave in 1994 and now I'm lusting over a Dynasty 200 DX. To a new welder I recommend getting set up with a quality ox/acet torch and regulators and start practicing and keep practicing. If and when you want to go with a Tig set up you will still need the ox/acet anyway to do fuselage work. Its much easier now to get tooled up with a Tig and if you choose to go that route try to fit a water cooled torch in the budget. I think the sport air courses by the EAA are a good thing. The steel and aluminum fabrication in airplane work has always been my favorite thing, welds cool faster than epoxy sets up. I'm not a patient wood worker or painter.

I'm surprised that there isn't more information related to MIG welding on fuselage construction for homebuilders. There has been much contention with this process when it comes to sticking together 4130 tube. But it seems by my observation that many manufactures of certified aircraft are using MIG. Click on the Cubcrafters banner ad here, and there is some video footage of Cub fuselages welded using MIG.
I have heard the Rans MIG welds there fuselages, obviously without any apparent problems. Personally I would ditch TIG and Gas on the next project and use MIG. It is a far faster process. It would be nice to hear from anyone on here who has worked at these factories to find out if there is any special equipment or post treatment used after the welding to mitigate weld area embrittlement supposedly induced by MIG
If it's good enough for the production aircraft guys, it should be good for the home builder..

From my recent experience I'm sticking to O/A when it comes to 4130 tube. Gonna have to use the gas torch to anneal the arc welded joints anyways.

All the RANS, KITFOX, and AVID FLYER aircraft were and are MIG'd. John Robert's of AV Weld (Cub style gear for the S-7 mod) migs. As does Back Country Cub. I've heard the arguments for and against, and am not qualified to debate them, but I don't lose any sleep over a MIG welded airframe, if it isn't as good as TIG, it seems, from decades of practical experience and lots of fleet hourts, to be "good enough".

Good enough can mean bad, as in shoddy or slipshod, it can also mean just that, good enough as in other parts of the structure will and do fail before the part that was MIG welded.

Early Stinson airframes were STICK welded!!! I think the process is far less important than the technique. I would probably lean toward mig if only because I've run it so much in my work life. But as Whee says, stress relief is pretty important too. So as far as I know, Mig or Tig it still has to be done. If I'm not mistaken though, a big fat propane torch fed off a 5 gallon tank will do the stress relief just fine.

Yes, many current manufacturers mig weld their airframes but they are welded under very controlled conditions with weldors trained to use their process in their shop. I'm a very experienced Tig and gas weldor, when I make up a sample cluster to try out with mig I make a mess of it. I'm sure I could be trained to do it but I'm not willing to try my chances on a fuselage and ruin it by doing a poor welding job. I don't think an expensive supply of 4130 material for an airframe is worth a shortcut. Some builders will tack with the mig and then finish out with gas or tig but I don't like to do that as welding through a mig tack trashes up a tungsten. I do love my mig welder for general repair around my shop and I build a lot of steel jigs with it as its great for that. Another poster mentioned Stinson stick welding airframes and if you have ever seen a Stinson fuselage in sandblasted form it is quite ugly but who can argue with success. Bottom line is any welding process done improperly will be bad. There are plenty of mig welded airplanes flying around but for the homebuilder working in their own workshop I don't think its a good idea.

Is Oxyacetylene welding the easiest for a fumble fingered novice to master vs. MIG, TIG, etc?

There is an old saying…”when you’re hot your hot and when you’re not your not.” In fact …here is the 2 minute video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBeBQJHhIj4&spfreload=10

Anyway, when it comes to certain skills, like “ W E L D I N G “, I am probably five or six standard deviations to the bottom left of the bell curve. So.

Maybe it's better that I tackle gas welding and sidestep MIG and TIG ? Is gas the easiest? I need the least challenging mode of welding. I really just plan to do a few utility things, and not craft together a Bearhawk fuselage for example from a bunch of metal tubes.

There is a nearby EAA class this month on gas welding, and I am thinking, maybe that’s all I need? If I can master half decent gas welding, maybe I’ll just go with that. Anybody just sort of do most of their welding with Oxyacetylene gas ? For folks who use several techniques, is gas the simplest for a novice to master?

My opinion: if your building a airplane gas is the easiest to not mess up, for everything else MIG

I like welding with the MIG. We use it for everything on the farm. Makes a very strong weld, and fairly easy to get proficient at. Anything away from the shop get stick welded, but the portable doesn't get used much. I learned in my teens by building gates for the Buffalo feedlot. Lost most of it during 8 years of construction supervision, but in the last 2 years have spent a lot of time welding on the farm again. Rebuilt an old rock picker, re-flighted our 16" auger, and many other things. Just takes a lot of time and patience.

Denali wrote:Is Oxyacetylene welding the easiest for a fumble fingered novice to master vs. MIG, TIG, etc?

There is an old saying…”when you’re hot your hot and when you’re not your not.” In fact …here is the 2 minute video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBeBQJHhIj4&spfreload=10

Anyway, when it comes to certain skills, like “ W E L D I N G “, I am probably five or six standard deviations to the bottom left of the bell curve. So.

Maybe it's better that I tackle gas welding and sidestep MIG and TIG ? Is gas the easiest? I need the least challenging mode of welding. I really just plan to do a few utility things, and not craft together a Bearhawk fuselage for example from a bunch of metal tubes.

There is a nearby EAA class this month on gas welding, and I am thinking, maybe that’s all I need? If I can master half decent gas welding, maybe I’ll just go with that. Anybody just sort of do most of their welding with Oxyacetylene gas ? For folks who use several techniques, is gas the simplest for a novice to master?

Oxy/Acetylene is for tubing and very light stuff. If you're going to build racks and brackets and tables and stuff like that you'll need mig or stick.

I thought this article on welding safety and deadly phosgene gas formation was worth pointing out.. Phosgene gas was used in WWI in the trenches.... bad stuff

http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html Deadly Phosgene Gas formation when welding in the presence of brake cleaner.


http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?1049-Welder-s-warning-on-Phosgene-gas-%28from-Brake-Cleaner%29 More of same info at eeaforums website

MIG. Needs to be very clean and doesnt cover itself well. Been doing it for years on stuff way more critical than an airplane.

gbflyer wrote:MIG. Needs to be very clean and doesnt cover itself well. Been doing it for years on stuff way more critical than an airplane.

Hey gb, I'm a rookie and have an honest question. What do you mean by it doesn't cover itself well? Like you can't weld over another weld?

David

Yes. Its not that you can't, it's just better if you don't. I cannot explain all the metallurgical reasons for this as I don'
t have the vocabulary for it.

Pipeline guys are using some squirt guns (mig), but the root pass is still done with P5 most of the time.

Mig is fine for airframes. Like said above, if its good enough for CC and Rans its good enough for me. If you look closely you won't find multiple passes anywhere. 4130 is good material and not difficult to process. The key is 1) practice and 2) a really good jig.