Backcountry Pilot • How much snow can wheels handle?

How much snow can wheels handle?

Share tips, techniques, or anything else related to flying.
15 postsPage 1 of 1

How much snow can wheels handle?

One of our local airports got a 2" dusting of snow and promptly closed all the runways (it has 3). Next door airport was open in the same conditions.

Snow is pretty variable, light and fluffy or heavy concrete, but in general I've never worried about a few inches. Any experience that can wade in with snow depth advice for nosewheel or tailwheel, or 26"+ tires? I've gone to 5", in the lighter stuff anyway.

Here's a PA12 on 31" that had difficulty....
http://www.mpnnow.com/article/20150309/news/150309614

Image
Last edited by Karmutzen on Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Karmutzen offline
User avatar
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:47 pm
Location: Great Bear Rainforest
'74 7GCBC, 26" ABW, Aera 660 feeding G5 and FC-10 FF.

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

IMHO, snow it the most variable landing surface by far. 2" can be a draggy beotch.... or not even noticed. 10" can put you on your back or just make you smile as it blows out from under your tires. Never trust snow. Never. Touch it planning to cob it and go around. Feel it. Safe would be to stay home. But it can be dealt with if you are cautious. But it will bite you fast. Be careful. There are no internet answers to snow question. While we type the snow has changed.
UtahMaule offline
User avatar
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:34 am
Location: Utah
FindMeSpot URL: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/face ... 2IL1f7zLOO

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

I have landed and departed in light fluffy stuff that was about 5" deep, without difficulty. I think that's the deepest I've ever been in, and many times I've been in shallower snow of varying consistencies without any noticeable difficulty.

However, I had an experience taking off in wet slushy stuff that was about 2" deep, and it was scary at best, as the mains grabbed and released unevenly--really glad to get out of it with the stall horn blaring. I had landed in that same snow earlier in the day without any noticeable issues, but the day was sunny, and it slushed up as a consequence without actually melting.

This was all with normal stock Cessna size main gear.

Cary
Cary offline
User avatar
Posts: 3801
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:49 pm
Location: Fort Collins, CO
"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth..., put out my hand and touched the face of God." J.G. Magee

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

UtahMaule wrote: Never trust snow. Never. Touch it planning to cob it and go around. Feel it. Safe would be to stay home. But it can be dealt with if you are cautious. But it will bite you fast. Be careful. There are no internet answers to snow question. While we type the snow has changed.


Best answer right there ^^.

There is some other reading to be done on the subject though, with all sorts of good info and anecdotes:

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/ ... eels-15723

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/ ... tires-6892

The common thread is that there's simply no way to reliably evaluate snow from the air. It is 100% a crap shoot.

That's a crazy pic Karmutzen.
Zzz offline
Janitorial Staff
User avatar
Posts: 2855
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: northern
Aircraft: Swiveling desk chair
Half a century spent proving “it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

How much snow can wheels handle?

Skis are for snow, floats are for water, and tires are for land. If you want to use tires on water or snow, repeat after me. Hold my beer and watch this. Do as I say not as I do also comes to mind.
Image
Image

Cheers...Rob
OregonMaule offline
User avatar
Posts: 6977
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:44 pm
Location: Orygun
My SPOT page

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety". Ben Franklin
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

UtahMaule wrote:IMHO, snow it the most variable landing surface by far. 2" can be a draggy beotch.... or not even noticed. 10" can put you on your back or just make you smile as it blows out from under your tires. Never trust snow. Never. Touch it planning to cob it and go around. Feel it. Safe would be to stay home. But it can be dealt with if you are cautious. But it will bite you fast. Be careful. There are no internet answers to snow question. While we type the snow has changed.


This is as good of an answer you'll ever find. Almost a year ago I read a similar post here or on FB. About a month later I found myself hanging from my seatbelt because I was curious and stupid. A lesson learned the hard way.

OregonMaule is right on too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Grassstrippilot offline
Knowledge Base Author
User avatar
Posts: 3536
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:17 am
Location: Syracuse, UT
FindMeSpot URL: https://share.garmin.com/WolfAdventures
Aircraft: Cessna 205

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

Snow cannot be trusted. If you are cautious and thoughtful, you can figure out ways to evaluate it for some circumstances though. I find that if I can see the color of the ice through the snow, then it is always less than 2 inches and always something I can handle. If I can't then I usually am very cautious about how to evaluate it. One good way is to let the other guy land first.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Troy Hamon offline
User avatar
Posts: 913
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:27 am
Location: King Salmon
FindMeSpot URL: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/face ... 04iX0FXjV2
Aircraft: Piper PA-22

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

Any info on the photo, cause it doesn't look like it matches the story that's linked?
-DP
denalipilot offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:53 pm
Location: Denali
Aircraft: C-170B+

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

Generally, if you took off on the snow and that was not too bad,,,,,then landing in the same place should also be not too bad! :D

This may not work if temps are near freezing though, it could thaw and re freeze making it crusty!
.
Feet on the ground ahead of time would be great but often is not practical.

Other than that its a crap shoot
TangoFox offline
User avatar
Posts: 621
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:06 am
Location: Where the wind takes me
Keep the Greasy side down!

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

That is like the guy that ask how much frost he could leave on the wings and still fly. It's hard to define point of no return without personal experience on that day, in those conditions, with that load, at that altitude, on the back side of the moon faze, with your tongue in your cheek just right. Then go just a little too far, now you know.

That guy drove his 170 off the end of the strip going like a bat, into the subdivision and tore the heck out of things. Now he knows he can't fly with that much left on.
goldfinch offline
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:25 pm
Location: LEWISTON,Idaho
wings, cary me over the big rocks

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

snow? what's that...
iceman offline
User avatar
Posts: 2026
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:01 am
Location: El Cajon Cal

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

Any info on the photo, cause it doesn't look like it matches the story that's linked?
-DP


The tires belong to a 172 taildragger conversion on 31's that flipped landing in a mountain meadow that had about 6 inches of snow. Tires went on to another aircraft that also got long-lined off the Glacier, and the yellow super cub later met the same fate. Glacier is near Whistler, BC, with several helicopter operators handily nearby.

Quote:
"The saga of the cursed Bushweels. The photo with the wheels sticking out is only about 3 weeks after the fact, due to heavy weather in the area. That’s close to 6’ of windblown snow packed down on top of her. Salvage was started soon after to take advantage of the short spell of clear weather.
There’s is some unlucky irony to some of those who got connected to this incident. First off, after the aircraft was written off, the tires soon came into the possession of some hapless soul, who decided to also take a run at that same mountain. He too had to have HIS plane long lined off that hill due to structural damage to the tail. 2 down, one to go. I think he burned the tires after that.
From a third party source we heard soon after, the Cub in the photo had an incident of its own. He was with a pax on a glacier (ski equipped) and couldn’t get airborne with two aboard, so the pax disembarked to lighten the load, on the solo attempt; He ended up sailing off the edge a crevasse and crashed upside down. Unfortunately he sustained some bad injury. The pax meanwhile tried to flag down some help by writing words of greeting in the snow.
At the time it was difficult to understand why the Cessna went over, cause the snow packed down by the wind seemed so well consolidated. This was quite some time ago now, and Bushwheels were still kinda new, and they were seen as a go anywhere option, But like the way the 4x4 vehicle is perceived by the public with its aire of invincibility, they are often the ones most likely to end up in the ditch.
There are now plenty of pics and stories on the net of big footed planes on their backs, the result of interfacing with surprisingly light snow depths. The lesson learned from all of this is, Don’t try landing in snow with any sized wheels, it’s consistency is difficult to predict from the air, even if it’s only a few inches in depth. That's what skis are for."

2nd crash of the same tires, nearby glacier.
Image

and the super cub, change of temp caused sticky skis, maybe "Help" would have been better than "Hello"
Image
Karmutzen offline
User avatar
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:47 pm
Location: Great Bear Rainforest
'74 7GCBC, 26" ABW, Aera 660 feeding G5 and FC-10 FF.

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

Just because you see a set of tracks in the snow does not mean it is safe!!
DENNY
DENNY offline
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:16 pm
Location: CHUGIAK
DENNY

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

Thanks, Karmutzen. Crazy backstory!
denalipilot offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:53 pm
Location: Denali
Aircraft: C-170B+

Re: How much snow can wheels handle?

DENNY wrote:Just because you see a set of tracks in the snow does not mean it is safe!!
DENNY


+1. I learned that lesson 25 years ago when taught by that 'ol demon instructor, Experience. 1 1/2" of crusty snow with a quartering December tailwind made my taxi a short and expensive experience. :(
PapernScissors offline
Posts: 419
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:49 pm
Location: Spokane
Aircraft: Cessna 172

DISPLAY OPTIONS

15 postsPage 1 of 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Latest Features

Latest Knowledge Base