I would second Mike's thumbs up on Pac Boats (used to be called fold a boat). They are very stable, fold up nice, and 2-3 people can comfortably fish out of. fit real nice on float struts compared to boats or canoes. We used to fly with one on the side of a 135hp PA-12, with a 6 horse outboard motor and 2 of us and all our camping gear inside, all over Ontario. Really didn't know it was on there. I use rope, ratchet straps, bungies, and everything else I have when tying stuff on. The beavers 18 miles north of here fly 16 foot lund boats strapped on the float struts all the time - square side forward. I flew in an otter that had a 16 foot lund on each side. A 135 operator here got a 337? or some other type of official blessing for his Cessna 180 to carry external loads about 5 years ago. He went through all the flight testing with the FAA and everything. I think he got it approved for 16 foot canoe. This approval was a one time for that airplane only kind of deal. The snowshoes and ice augers on the struts are pretty common dressings on ski planes here in northern MN. I suspect in Alaska also. Damn tought to fit alaskan style snowshoes inside a small plane due to length, and they are a necessity if you ever have to freeze down a runway.

Ryppa,

Nope, the Fold a Boat is NOT anything like a Pack Boat. The Pack Boat disassembles and folds up, and goes into a small bag. The small boats (10.5 foot) will fold up into a bag small enough that one will fit in the float locker of a Baumann or Wip float. The 14.5 or 15 foot boats don't get quite that small, but they fold up into a bag about 18 inches in diameter by about 2.5 feet long.

They go INSIDE the airplane.

I have used the Fold a Boats, and, while they work okay, they still need to be attached as an external load. They also need a motor, which the Pack Boats do not.

Here's a link to the Pack Boat: http://www.pakboats.com/

As I noted earlier, if there's any way to do the job WITHOUT carrying an external load, I'll do it that way.

I carried HUGE ALaskan style trail snowshoes in Huskys all the time, generally two sets. Yes, inside. No extended baggage compartment.

Carrying snowshoes on the struts may look cooler, but they'll fit inside most planes.

MTV

It's funny how different the lower 48 is from Alaska. I attended a seminar in Fall 05 in Fairbanks for work and ventured into a class on fixed wing external loads. It was given by a gentleman for the local FSDO and he even went into loads that were outside of the Alaska letter (after stating that they were totally illegal).

I asked afterwards why they ventured into what he admitted was not legal and was told that the folks up there were going to do it anyways, and that at least that FSDO could do it's best to help them keep the loads safe.

Brett

mtv wrote:Carrying snowshoes on the struts may look cooler...

MTV

Hmmm... Methinks that is quite often in play...

Mike, Rhyppa and who ever that would like to comment. After bringing up the portable boat thing, I have been doing a little research (again). For my application, it does look like the Portabote might work better, especially for 2-3 people to fish out of, rather than the Pak boat. I have 3500 Aerocets on a 185, so there should be lots of room to strap it on (stern forward Mike?). I am on the Canada side of the border, (only an hour or so flight from you Rhyppa) so am not worried about the external load issue. How big a Portabote would I need for up to 3 people to fish out of? Are there any other boat alternatives? Any other issues tying it on? Thanks Steve

I second the pak boat. Also I know a guy who sells them who has a good BCP discount . I've been using one for a while. PM if you like advise.

Mike

Steve,

The Porta Boat's that I've carried (and I carried one off and on for a couple years for various projects) I didn't worry about stern forward or back. They fold up, so the transom really isn't much of an issue.

If you DO fly one stern forward, however, make absolutely certain that you use a good woodworker's clamp or??? to keep that back end from opening up in the relative wind. THAT would be a DRAG .

They fly just fine.

Contrary to the Alaska Region FAA guidance on external loads, if I only have a load on one side of the plane, I want it on the pilot's side of a four seater, so I can watch it, inspect it in flight. On a Cub, I'd put it on the side opposite the one door.

And, I much prefer ratcheting cargo straps for external loads. Get the "real" straps, though, not the Wal Mart specials with the cheapo hooks.

Also, check out the weights of the Fold a Boat. They are pretty heavy. Depending on teh plane, that may not be an issue, but they can be slippery as all getout for one person to load and secure. Trust me....

MTV

FWIW thanks to MTV here is the FAA - Alaska Region external load guidance as of a few years ago.

I carry an 8 ft port-a-bote on my 3430s C-185. As far as size goes, I am 230#, wife 150#, and dog 53#. In my opinion that maxes out the boat, with this load about 4-5" of free board at the bow.

I have carried it strapped to the struts and to the spreader bars. It doesn't seem to make any difference in performance, bad one way or the other, but on the spreader bars it is easier to get out of the plane and onto the floats with the boat out of the way.

I have to tap dance the rudders constantly to fight yawing, and I mean constantly. Have a 3.5 hp outboard to power it.

Ford Wilson wrote:I carry an 8 ft port-a-bote on my 3430s C-185. As far as size goes, I am 230#, wife 150#, and dog 53#. In my opinion that maxes out the boat, with this load about 4-5" of free board at the bow.

I have carried it strapped to the struts and to the spreader bars. It doesn't seem to make any difference in performance, bad one way or the other, but on the spreader bars it is easier to get out of the plane and onto the floats with the boat out of the way.

I have to tap dance the rudders constantly to fight yawing, and I mean constantly. Have a 3.5 hp outboard to power it.

You are talking about Canada not the US... Are u legal to do dthat in the US ?

Electric Snail I sent you a PM. Ford, that is valuable information. Mike I appreciate and am noting your comments. Would you guys have any idea what size Portabote would comfortably accommodate 3 people to fish out of? Do you think going to something bigger, like a 10-12-14 footer, would make a significant difference in plane handling over the 8 foot? Thanks everyone, it sure helps to have people with experience.

I've used the 12 foot Porta Boats, and they are okay for two, but I wouldn't want to do much with three. Also, these need a pretty small motor (thus they are going to be slow), cause a bigger motor will cause them to start to fold (the wrong way) in the middle, ie: bow toward stern. I worked with a guy who couldn't keep his wrist under control, and would crank on a 15, and fold that sucker up. Kinda exciting if you don't catch it in time.

MTV