Somebody help me out, throw me a bone! What do you all do in order to have these kinds of toys!?

I am looking at finally starting my private and I am really interested in being able to go anywhere backcountry or to a family ranch etc. it's the main appeal of flying to me. I have been around aviation some - my buddy's dad growing up built an RV and we were always over there watching and tinkering and have made several Oshkosh trips.

I went to the USMC after Texas A&M on an air contract but blew out my knee before any of the flight training. Flash forward several years and the itch hasn't gone away and it is time to scratch it.

I want a 4 place sub 800' capable aircraft with 1000lb or so payload but it looks like it's going to cost me around $80k - that in itself with financing is doable but not when you add in insurance, hangar, maintenance etc.

Two questions -
How do you afford it?
Any ideas for aircraft that meet my criteria?

Thanks and hopefully I won't get run off or shunned!

Welcome here! We're mostly good folks and shouldn't run you off.
Sounds like you should look at a straight tail 182. 1000lbs payload is tough with any aircraft, but there good light ones out there.
Being able to burn moGas is huge for me. The savings are well worth having a few less ponies. Other then that I don't drive a new vehicle, or own a boat or holiday trailer. My priority is my 180 and my wife supports that. So that's my toy.

Welcome aboard.

Ideally if, you could make friends that have what you are looking for then, it is easier to see if that's what you are looking for. Aviation is a lifestyle for me and my goals tend to change as I learn more, read more and meet like minded individuals.

Keep working for a license, reading, meeting folks (internet works great) and join (or hang around) clubs. Aviation has many facades. And each and every airplane is different. Get into the mix.

E-mail me at [email protected] and I will attach my e-book "Safe Maneuvering Flight Techniques." What you learn first is what is most heavily indoctrinated. I taught my Ag students this stuff first, sent them to a young instructor to prep for the Private, and then worked with them again of Ag stuff before they took the Commercial test. That way they learned to fly first, then prep for the test.

There are crop dusters in your area who can teach this stuff in the winter.

Welcome!!!

I'll just babble a bit, maybe something will be useful.

I think sometimes it's sitting down and really thinking about what you really want to do with your airplane and figuring out what you can do with what you're willing to spend.

Personally, I wasn't willing to go into debt for an airplane so I flew a 150 for a while and then very happily upgraded to a 172 after a time. Starting to think that with maintaining an older airplane, maybe I could sell it and save up for something smaller, more backcountry/stol capable, but less in maintenance costs. Experimentals are certainly worth looking at to keep maintenance costs down (not in preventive maintenance needs but in parts and upgrade costs). Many also burn mogas which can be a considerable savings. (mogas STC's exist for many certificated birds too).

If $80,000 is pushing it, well, what can you get for $60,000? 182's seem to come to mind, maybe an older 180? Do you really need a 4 place? How fast do you really need to go?

Given your desire and cost range maybe a 182 would be a good place to start to figure out what works and what doesn't. Maybe a good 172 would be a good place to start and get a feel for airplane ownership. Good practice on learning how to manage an underpowered airplane won't hurt when you get a more powerful one. I spent less than 21K on the 172 up front and it's done most of what I want it to do. Kinda scary when it doesn't, though.

Consider getting a partner. My personal opinion is that more than one partner isn't really worth the hassle but others may disagree. You can get more airplane and one partner probably won't make a big difference on how much you fly. Cost of hangar, insurance, annual maintenance are cut in half.

And don't forget fuel... one thing I like about my 172 is it burns less than 8gph an hour but it only goes about 105mph (as currently configured). A 182 burns more per hour but also goes faster so the cost isn't as much of a difference when traveling somewhere but more expensive if just dicking around.

Don't freak out about not getting the perfect airplane. I don't think the perfect airplane even exists. So long as you do due diligence in buying an airplane, you should be okay when it comes time to flying it or selling it.

oh wait... I forgot. Just go buy a Maul.

Thanks for the info so far! I forgot to mention that I am looking for a tail dragger.

GroundLooper - I've been looking mainly at Maule's - there is one around Llano not far from here. The Texas STOL roundup is there and I was hoping to try and track some of those guys down if they are on this site.

I need a 4 place for family and gear, I'll be using it for camping and hunting so I need the space for gear etc.

As far as experimentals, isn't the annual only cheaper if you are the builder?

School me on mo gas, maybe I'm even less informed than I thought! Most seem to have the Lyc O-360 or 540.

Thanks again!

TxAgfisher wrote:Two questions -
How do you afford it?
Any ideas for aircraft that meet my criteria?
As far as experimentals, isn't the annual only cheaper if you are the builder?

Okay that actually three questions. And the answers are:
1. I busted my ass, and then I finally did it smartly.
2. A taildragger is going to cost you more in insurance, especially as a new pilot. But I totally get it.
3. Experimental's don't have annuals, they have conditionals which are done...wait for it...annually! (sorry MTV, couldn't resist plagiarizing you). If the aircraft is in good shape a conditional won't be as onerous as an annual. And you are fortunate living where you do because there are a couple of top notch A&P/IA's that are happy to do owner assisted annuals and conditionals which will save you some coin.

Here is a good place to review your aircraft options:
https://www.backcountrypilot.org/knowledge-base/aircraft/list-of-backcountry-aircraft

Oh, and welcome.

P.S. If you can, come on over to the Apache Pass Fly-in Labor Day weekend.
http://www.apachepass.com/flyin-2015-page.html

If you want a four place taildragger on a budget I would look at a 170, Pacer, or a Stinson 108. Of course they will never be as capable as a Skywagon or a Maule but probably enough to fit your mission 90% of the time. And you can get them for 1/3 to 1/2 of that 80k price you mentioned. Also, I've seen some Stinsons with as much as 1100lbs useful load, more than most early 180s or any Maule. If you can look past the nose wheel, I'd second A1Skinner's reccomendation for a straight tail 182.

Hard to beat a 170 or a Stinson for Fun/$ ratio IMHO

Well if ur near the Llano area give us a shout. I got a hangar in Llano n would be happy to help with whatever.

Don't even fool with a nosedragger, there I said it [emoji12]

Welcome mate to what i rekon is the best aviation community in the internet! These guys are all a great bunch of fellas, well most of them anyway its also packed full of knowledge! Its a place you never have to feel ashamed to ask a question, which is good because i need all the help I can get!

As far as funding our sport, well in my case, i cant! Thats why i fly a plane with no sides! However for others, heres a link to a really interesting thread from a while ago. Some people have some incredible careers!

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/ ... tion-16002

Skalywag - Was that you in last years STOL video landing out there somewhere on the Colorado? Hard to miss that polished look!

Barnstormer - I have been all through this site over the last year or so since I joined, but the link on people's careers I hadn't seen. I am planning on making it over to Rockdale, hopefully I can get some contacts on here to link up with out there so I'm not out there wandering around aimlessly.

Can anyone tell me the difference in the Maule's (M5/M6/M7 etc) are they just different generations of planes?

My real limitation on the aircraft is that I will have around 900' at my family's place to land/take off and I really want to be able to get in there. As far as experimentals, I love the look/concept of the Bearhawk but there aren't many out there.

I'm just wondering if I shouldn't give in on the tail wheel for now and look at like a Zenith or something.

TxAGfisher,
If you want to get 1,000 pounds out of a 900' strip, there are some things you need to do first. Regardless of what airplane you use, learn the low (6") ground effect takeoff. Get a dozer out there and clear a path on the down drainage side of the field, even if crooked. Learn to make cross controlled rudder turns in low ground effect.
Have fun,
Contact

Welcome, Get in the air!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It will come if you want it!!!!!!!
I've had the disease for many years,
I've been involved since my Dad got his first Tcraft about 6 months before I was born!!
Never have had a (STEADY JOB) No retirement, will probably work right up till I die!! Don't know what else I would do anyway!!
Have been nothing but a working stiff all my life.
As said on another forum, 40 hours were done by Weds. night!
Have a live in Toy Box on my own strip! Lucky SOB if you ask me!! Way to many projects and birds in it!
Be smart, find all the info you can, close your eye's wide open and jump in!!
If you have the bug??? Not sure what to tell you, Good Luck
It's been a great monkey on my back for about 62 yrs!!
Love the noise, stories videos, pix, books, magazines, fellowship of so many!
Have went through lots of differant aircraft, finally found a partner that likes Me as much as my Airplanes!!
Took awhile, but finally got lucky, She puts up with me, Ya have to have a good partner to make it work, after all this stuff is your other woman!!

TxAgfisher wrote:...I am planning on making it over to Rockdale, hopefully I can get some contacts on here to link up with out there so I'm not out there wandering around aimlessly...

Look me up. I'll be wearing a T-shirt with big letters CAG.

First things first, welcome.

For me, it's in this order:

1) Get your private first; then fly some. It's hard to tell what you'll really like or want to fly until you get there. Wait till you are done with that until you start to lock down your mission too much. I know guys that really wanted to be spending their time bush bouncing early on and then it evolved into aerobatics or long cross counties with the wife. No rush.
2) Money/finance. You're an Ag, so that means you are a smart guy with a good education. So, through budget, increased income, lifestyle, re-location, priorities or whatever combination thereof; assume the plane will be another mortgage. Be realistic about budgeting. The plane, feeding it, insuring it, housing it, repairing it will shock you. I've always budgeted an extra $1000 to $2000 a month plus a $5K annual so I don't have to keep it parked in a hangar due to finances. Don't let financial stress from a plane kill your love of flying. it happens so often that it's stereotypical.

Bill

Barnstormer - will do, probably reach out to you closer to the event.

I've been looking at Stinson's this morning - is there any room behind the rear seats? Also, from what I have read, should I stay away from the Franklin powerplant and look for a Lyc conversion? I see some that have the O-470 in it.

How is the short field performance?

I really don't know enough to know what I am looking at with various options, but I like the price point.

Also, after doing some research on insurance, looks like a trike is about half as much to insure. Would I be giving anything up besides cruise speed if I went with say a Maule with nose gear?

fiftynineSC wrote:....Get your private first; then fly some. It's hard to tell what you'll really like or want to fly until you get there. Wait till you are done with that until you start to lock down your mission too much. I know guys that really wanted to be spending their time bush bouncing early on and then it evolved into aerobatics or long cross counties with the wife. ..........

I agree. I would do some flight training in a C150 or 172. Somewhere along the way you'll have more of a feel for the kind of flying you enjoy. I trained in a 152, then bought a 150 as my first airplane. Couple years later, a 170. 11 years later, a C150/150TD. And finally 6 years later my dream airplane a C180.

Don't be too eager to jump in the deep end of the pool. Your questions about "how do you afford it" lead me to believe that like most of us you're on a budget. It's real easy to buy an inexpensive airplane that turns into a maintenance hog, or spend most of your money on something only to discover that you can't really afford to operate it, maintain it, or fix it when it breaks.

It's pretty tough to beat a 172 for a first airplane. Not too glamorous, and maybe it won't be up to your 900' family farm strip (at least not with a load), but it will be affordable to fly a lot & develop your skills in. Taildragger equivalents are the C170, Stinson 108, or Pacer.

TxAgfisher, yeah that was me in Zanes video. Most all those fun places to land on the Colorado are back under water now.

900' is kinda tight but most of the planes ur talkin bout will do it just fine with enough practice.