1_Robert wrote:Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm pretty thick as I'm still confused. My iphone has GPS but Garmin Pilot loses my location once I get up a certain altitude. This is one of the reasons I bought the InReach since my understanding is it provides a supplemental GPS source that works at altitude. I noticed the day that I tried using my phone's GPS, Garmin Pilot showed my location at circuit altitude, but it was lost when I later climbed a bit.
I didn't realize our device's GPS were reliable. Perhaps my phone was just having a bad day when I tried it..?

GPS is satellite-based, so there's no possibility that climbing to higher altitude caused your GPS reception to degrade. There's something else going on if you're actually losing position information at altitude. Are you sure you enabled "Location Services" on your iPhone so Garmin Pilot is allowed to access your iPhone's GPS? You can confirm that in the Settings app. Scroll down to find the "Garmin Pilot" entry, and ensure the "Location" option is set to "While Using the App" or "Always". The "While Using" option allows GPS access to Garmin Pilot while you're using it, but disables it (preserving battery life) when you exit the app. The only reason to set it to "Always" would be if you habitually turn off your iPhone or iPad while in flight, and want it to be able to quickly display your position when you turn it back on. Oh, and while you're in the details for "Location" setting, make sure you have the "Precise Location" option enabled as well.

Back to the GPS "accuracy" discussion... Both the iPhone and iPad use a "single-chip" solution that supports both cellular and navigation systems. The "GPS" receiver actually receives from all four of the major sat-nav solutions: US GPS, Euro Galileo, Russian Glonass, and Japanese Quasi-Zenith (which only works in very close proximity to Japan, so moot point for us). Ironically, that makes your iPhone and/or iPad less likely to lose position and navigation capability than a "certified" onboard GPS system designed 10-15 years ago, which listens only to the US-GPS satellites...

I also have a Garmin inReach (mine is the Mini), and I occasionally connect to it just to confirm the GPS will work in an emergency (it does), but I don't actually use it that way very much. Any time you connect to an external source for GPS, you're going to be using wireless to do so – either Bluetooth or Wi-Fi – and both of those use some battery power to operate that radio. Ditto for in-flight use of cellular signals – only it can be a LOT worse, because you can "see" multiple towers, and the system is constantly trying to determine which tower is "best" and switching to that tower. All that takes a good bit of power to accomplish, whereas the internal GPS chipset is highly optimized to use minimum power while still providing good location information.

In fact, all three of those radios (cellular, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth) use a LOT more power when they are searching for signals than they do when "connected"... That's why ForeFlight (and others) recommend that you use "Airplane Mode" while flying, then individually turn on only the radio(s) you're actually using to link to your GPS or ADS-B source.

Like Daedaluscan I’m carrying my iPad less and less, finding the biggest iPhone (Max) to be enough for the routine VFR flying.

Good point on keeping things powered, all my aircraft get dual USB, one for the SPOT/InReach tracker, the other slot for the iPhone. I leave them on all the time, you’re always hitting cel reception and can keep up with Facebook -er, weather, texts and emails while you drone your way to your destination. Keeping your phone on is also a SAR backup for location.

I know lots of you guys fly in Mig alley and need an ADSB iPad to dodge traffic. Not here.

BTW, on fires with a helicopter you’d better have a USB port if you want to stay on contract these days. They even grumble if you only offer a charging block.

A1Skinner wrote:

1_Robert wrote:

Cannon wrote:The cellular iPad has an internal GPS chip. WiFi only does not.

If you always connect it to a device which can supply GPS, the WiFi version is probably fine. Personally, I always buy a cellular version because I hate having to connect it to something for position, and the $10/mo for data is worth it to me. You can also tether it to your phone for data, and for some people that works well.

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm pretty thick as I'm still confused. My iphone has GPS but Garmin Pilot loses my location once I get up a certain altitude. This is one of the reasons I bought the InReach since my understanding is it provides a supplemental GPS source that works at altitude. I noticed the day that I tried using my phone's GPS, Garmin Pilot showed my location at circuit altitude, but it was lost when I later climbed a bit.
I didn't realize our device's GPS were reliable. Perhaps my phone was just having a bad day when I tried it..?

I'm still unclear on how to get weather into Garmin Pilot in Canada. I'm not sure if the GDL50 works the same in Canada as US as far as weather?

I use my Samsung phone with Garmin pilot and have never had it cut out at a set altitude. This is the first I've heard of that happening. How high are you flying during your training?
As for weather, I just turn that layer on in the settings on my phone and it displays the radar coverage. It's super handy, I especially like the lightning strike feature. It's no extra cost to my regular $80/yr garmin pilot subscription, but only works where there is radar weather coverage. I lose that in the very northern parts of Alberta. Overall quite happy.

His phone is navigating using cellular service, which is designed to be limited at altitude, to avoid hitting a bunch of towers at once.

Mine does the same thing. Have to have "location services" on and approved for the app.

MTV

1_Robert wrote:

Cannon wrote:...My iphone has GPS but Garmin Pilot loses my location once I get up a certain altitude... I noticed the day that I tried using my phone's GPS, Garmin Pilot showed my location at circuit altitude, but it was lost when I later climbed a bit...

What you experienced "is a thing" with the iPad Mini 5 and the iPhone11. You can read my entire thread here:
https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/update-on-gps-new-ipad-mini-5-22943. Apple and Foreflight confirmed it.

The altitude degradation gets worse as the latitude increases. Perhaps they changed satellite constellations to save money. Perhaps China put in cheaper chips. Doesn't really matter as the results are fact.

Good news is you've got an inReach, just pair to it and you'll be fine, I've been doing this since Im gave up on Apple and it's flawless. No idea if this was fixed in the iPhone 12 or will be fixed in the iPad Mini 6.

I can say that my 11Pro, driving, is far worse than my 8 was, and I'm talking in the Lwr 48. It constantly losses where it is, yet my trucks GPS never does.

I've been flying with a Mini 4 with the internal GPS for 4 years now and I don't leave the house without it. Only thing that would be nice (and IMO worth the 5 or 6 upgrade) would be to use a smart pen for writing notes on the foreflight scratchpad. Battery life with Foreflight connected to a Stratux and screen on full bright is pretty meh so you need a battery pack or USB charger for sure if you're flying more than a few hours.

I use my iphone to plan on foreflight then bluetooth it to my panel mounted Aera660. Love this setup, can't imagine lugging an ipad around anymore.