(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part ...

Sitting on the ground with a busted airplane is not an inflight emergency...

Live and learn.

Bob

Give the guy a break, quit acting like its some super/sub human feat.

He broke rule #1 buy not being on the ground having a beer by 10:30am or maybe that's rule #2

Yes It bit him in the ass as it has many before him.

He sucked it up did what he needed to do to get it home.

Probably just a normal day in some parts of the country, no Gump dont get started.

Wanna hear about a couple of drunk guys towing a 206 with a missing cylinder home with a Beech 18?

From List of problems solved by MacGyver:

MacGyver Season 2 Episode 5 wrote:In a particularly elaborate stunt, MacGyver builds a mud runway for a plane. This allows the plane, which has a punctured front tire, to take off, after replacing the wheel with a log that has a v-shape chiselled out on the inside and a smoothed half-circle outside. (The other two wheels ride on solid ground.)

First the runway area is cleared of debris, then a 1 ft (30cm) trench is dug. The mud is filled in from a nearby river, carried in campers' backpacks. In order to align the runway, MacGyver builds a theodolite, a device used to sight straight lines. The theodolite is built from relatively straight tree branches and uses earrings as sight guides.

The runway is 300 yards (274 m) long, and the plane is a five-passenger, single engine Cessna. To land the plane, he has an airport lay down foam.

mr scout wrote:Wanna hear about a couple of drunk guys towing a 206 with a missing cylinder home with a Beech 18?

Yes

I loved the "field fix", and Mr Scout, yes I want to hear about the Beech 18 towing a 206 story.

I have been reading an interesting book, "Picking Up The Pieces", where this guy spent 30 plus years field repairing broken airplanes in the bush and flying them out for the real repairs. He cobbed wing spars, and more. John

Hello Patrol Guy
That book, "Picking up the Pieces", sounds like it would be pretty interesting. Who is the author?

Thanks Gary

AKTahoe1, you lived in Alaska too long LOL! That field repair might be called for somewhere in the Alaska Range, but hell man, you can drive to Big Creek!

Oh, well. Everyone has their come-to-Jesus moment. BTDT and I have the dent in my bank account to prove it too.

1SeventyZ wrote: What if he was at a strip with no roads? Walk 70 miles or soft field takeoff?

Was he?

I got this friend that was flying his little Cessna 140 with his daughter this weekend They went to Moultrie Ga. KMGR where there are usually friendly people to hang out with. Once they got there there weren't any people, so my friend bought 4 qts of oil so he didn't feel guilty about not buying something and he and his daughter went out to the little airplane to leave. For whatever reason the little C-85 started right away as always, but quit in a couple of seconds and didn't restart. Well my friend not being well versed in little carburated motors tried priming the thing to no avail, then tried the flooded start, you know fuel off and throttle full open. Still no start, so he gave up and decided to go back inside in the airconditioning to wait a little while.
As he exited the aircraft he notice the smoke coming from the engine cowling, seems the foam airfilter element was on fire. Got the fire put out, but now what to do? The airfilter was obviously toast, front of the cowling left no doubt that there had been a fire, but except for the airfilter and some of the baffling (silicone)on the front of the engine there didn't appear to be any damage.

What should he have done? BTW, he is an A&P/IA.

So if you choose to do some name calling go for it. I have thick skin. I do feel like a moron trust me, and no if is not April either. I had hoped for that as the next morning when I woke from my tent only to still see my problem.

I put this up so that you and if you have all this experience already maybe some one else then, just might learn from my own mistake.

Would you put up a post of your own screw up? Or is your ego to large flying that little low wing into stupid places? You will bend her trust me, if you have not already..... My screw up was basic and could have happened to anyone.

As far as putting dad in....that was his choice not mine.....You tell your dad to rent a car and get home anther way. Sure when he has 18,000 hours more than you and most of it is bush flying in Alaska and he thiinks this bush repair is pretty simple and is not really concerned and tells you about all of the retarded things they have done in the real middle of nowhere. Yes, he was concerned but not about us getting our lives stripped away. He was more concerned about my pocket book and the additional $$ I may end up spending if I dont stick the take off and landing.

Honestly I was not concerned about that either. I was confident in the condition and was confident in our repair. My concern was like his, a prop strike and quadrupling my expenses.

Had i felt it was life threating at all, it would not have even been an issue on if we should fly her or not. If you actaully new what I do for a proffession you would know a lot more about my very own judgment capabilities. I deal with high risk on a daily basis from a number of levels and can assure you, I am not bold....however this incident may appear to most.

The nose gear was bent forward to answer your question. The wheel was touching the under cowling but with the big tires, the prop was still 6 plus inches off the ground and not near the tire at all. The come a longs helped us sure it up and make certain it was stable.

The tire was straight and stable. So that again helped with our dumb desision knowing I could get it at least straight down the runway and only needing about 50 feet to get the wheel up and off the ground. As for the landing that was my other concern but again as the only one flying her, I knew confidently she was stable enough for a soft fielder in McCall and to keep the nose up with the long paved runway they have there.

Yes, I know there is and was a ton of what if's, but? As we fly ever day, we learn to deal with the what if's daily....

Honestly, After doing it and pondering on what to do and if I would do it again? Yes, I probably would. It was not that big of deal. However certainly could have been. I got lucky and can assure you I am going back up to Idaho the minute the plane is fixed.

If anyone wants to learn about tearing apart an engine, I am in Minden....

So bring on some more name calling if you wish. Thats ok...we will meet someday...the world is a small place.

I do know....I am dumb. But that is easy for you to say when you have not been in that position and you did not have the confidnece in the fix like the guy who actually fixed her....

I hope you dont have the luck of bending up your airplane!

Cross all of your I's and dot your T's!

Sounds like the risk of injury was reasonably small - of doing more damage to the plane, perhaps a bit more.

In any case, there's a strong urge to try and make it back to one's home base or at least to a good place to get the damage repaired. The legality of flying it without a ferry permit might well be way down on my check list as well. Heck, if the Wright brothers had of known what the FAA would one day do, they'd of probably just looked up at them sea gulls and said, "Screw it - - ain't worth the hassle".

I've only flown to ID once, visiting less than 10 back country strips with my Husky. They were all "challenging", at least in the sense that one should be experienced with the plane and mountain flying. Some do not allow a low pass or drag, (thinking of Soldier's Bar as one example), where you land one way and take off the other - - and uphill to boot. With high terrain and/or obstructions on either side, there's no option for a go around at all. Just like landing a glider, you do it right the first time and hoperfully every time. Screw it up and you may bend metal or worse.

Carry a PLB, Spot, or better yet, team fly.

all the best

bumper
PS, when I screwed up, it was bad enough that flying it out was no longer an option.

Bonanza Man wrote:Read it and I might learn something? You make one bad landing and then bust any number of FAR's. Yep I sure learned something. I learned you're a moron.

This is the kind of post that causes me to shy away from a forum and the first one of its kind I've seen here. Nothing wrong with a little diplomacy.

The guy and his dad were 100% aware of the risks and chose to bet their lives on a bailing wire and chewing gum repair...and they won. There was a time when Americans made their own decisions and lived (or died) with the consequences....back when people were totally self reliant.

Personally I only know one guy who would have tried something like this and it's a reflection of his entire approach to aviation. Probably the most skilled pilot I know...and I wouldn't get into an airplane with him for anything....not to imply the pilot of the Big Creek incident in this case routinely exercises the same level of abandon.

I'm just happy to hear it all came out OK.

aktahoe1,

It was your call, it was your plane. None of the naysayers were there and you had the benefit of your father (and his vast experience) with you.

Others before you have done worse and made field repairs that also were not "approved".

Personally, I feel, our society has unfortunately evolved to the point where everyone feels they are a victim and needs big brother to protect us. Many feel that protection should extend to protecting us from ourselves which is just insane, IMHO. We all need a big dose of personal responsibility.

I have little problem with what you and your father did as it sounds like you were prepared for the consequences had it not turned out so good.

Yeah, I know had you balled it up on T.O. from Big Creek there might have been the possibility of rescuers being put in harms way but it seems that possibility was fairly remote.

If this had happened a few years back in AK, it wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow...

Ok come on guys its not THAT bad. Bonanza Man are REALLY that much of a flying Boy Scout????

Look, I agree that it was a bad desicion to fly around at 2:30 in the afternoon in Idaho. But his fix looks good, the slight force of the takeoff and landing are going to push on the wheel and the WORSE thing that is going to happen is on landing at a paved strip he is going colapse the nose and slide along, not DIE. New prop and engine tear down. Its easy to hold the nose wheel off to running speed in an aft loaded 182. If it collapses it will be at a slow speed.

As far as bush field repairs go this is mild. Have you guys seen some of the Alaska field repairs???? Come-alongs holding wings together, etc.....

Everyone likes to Monday morning quarterback. Just because you wouldn't do it doesn't mean its a bad idea. They thought it through, better than most pilots do.

Danny Boy wrote:

Bonanza Man wrote:Read it and I might learn something? You make one bad landing and then bust any number of FAR's. Yep I sure learned something. I learned you're a moron.

This is the kind of post that causes me to shy away from a forum and the first one of its kind I've seen here. Nothing wrong with a little diplomacy.

The guy and his dad were 100% aware of the risks and chose to bet their lives on a bailing wire and chewing gum repair...and they won. There was a time when Americans made their own decisions and lived (or died) with the consequences....back when people were totally self reliant.

Personally I only know one guy who would have tried something like this and it's a reflection of his entire approach to aviation. Probably the most skilled pilot I know...and I wouldn't get into an airplane with him for anything....not to imply the pilot of the Big Creek incident in this case routinely exercises the same level of abandon.

I'm just happy to hear it all came out OK.

Danny Boy,

I guess I was typing at the same time you were and it sounds like we're on the same page.

As our fearless leader has pointed out, it pretty easy to take pot shots with the anonymity of the internet and it's unfortunate that the same bad actors resort instantly to name calling when anything of substance is discussed and their opinion differs. Too bad really, as it certainly diminishes the effectiveness of argument and any worthwhile information is lost in the underhanded delivery.

Face to face that crap don't fly...

As our fearless leader has pointed out, it pretty easy to take pot shots with the anonymity of the internet

There is a time and a place for everything. The idea that the internet is anonymous is naive. This a great topic.

Too many witnesses at Big Creek, Mc Call and Minden. And now this. It seems that one of the risks he has not fully evaluated are the consequences that the FAA might bring down on him.

The flying decisions were outside of my comfort level for sure. But the decision to share what has been shared here is hard to understand. "Anything you say can and will be held against you".

The internet is not a guarantee of privacy. This stuff is out there the entire world to see. With that many eyeballs, be careful what you share.

Sharing the nature of the series of events without the details would have been a less risky way to help us learn.

In Alaska and Canada, and many other parts of the world, necessity may force one to make field repairs. Your survival can absolutely depend upon it.

I have seen buckled lift struts temporarily repaired with sticks, duct tape and rope, ten inches of dingled prop tips cut-off with a hack saw and then balanced with a file, and even worse...

This type of repair has gotten many pilots and passengers out of the bush and in to a more nurturing environment time and time again. It is second nature to those who fly in very remote areas of the world, and that is how they have learned to live to fly another day.

That said, flying with a 20000 hour bush pilot, I can see how one could rationalize such actions as this field repair as the most logical course of action. In Alaska, you don't have options, so you do what you can, where you are, with what you have.

We put ourselves out there for whatever reason we choose to, and in any adverse scenario, it is finally only our judgment and resourcefulness that are going to keep us alive.

It is the simplest response for one to cast judgment and call names. Perhaps that's what it takes for you to feel superior to the rest, but being resourceful and using sound judgment is what has allowed humans to explore and tame the world and is absolutely admirable.

If you are Ernest Shackleton, Don Sheldon, or Sir Edmund Hillary you are a hero for your abilities to press on and make due, but if you are a fellow no-name airman you are a moron...? It's a fine line that is moved at will by those who feel the need to express their negative opinions of others.

On the other hand, if you have become dependent on checklists, rules and regulations, to keep you alive, and have developed the habit of never deviating from the written and enforced protocol, well I wish you luck with that philosophy, for your regulations are not what is going to keep you alive in a situation where your means of survival are compromised.

An airman's body of knowledge is much more than just what you will find in the books. It is the sum of all of your knowledge and experience. Some choose to expand it by neglecting superficial limitations in certain scenarios and some allow for it to become limited by allowing others to do their thinking for them... It's an ongoing set of decisions, and there are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. The appropriate conduct is ultimately your decision, and you are responsible for your own actions, and many factors inevitably come in to play.

We really should be careful about extending the Bush philosophy regarding the regulations to the back country environment of the lower 48. In the back country, or any other flight environment for that matter, the regulations will not keep you alive, but a complete disregard for them could make things more difficult for the rest of us in the long run... Please be careful out there, for your own and the rest of our sake.

Out of curiosity, has any one ever heard a story of a field repair that has turned out disastrous?

mauleace wrote:

As our fearless leader has pointed out, it pretty easy to take pot shots with the anonymity of the internet

The idea that the internet is anonymous is naive. This a great topic.

My point was that it's easy to resort to being rude without a real face staring you down. From that aspect, anonymity is easy. It doesn't matter if we know where Bonanza Man lives and what his real name is, he's just a screen name with an attitude.

From an actual privacy persepctive, the internet is as anonymous as you make it. For instance, I know the IP address that you posted this from, but without the cooperation of your ISP there's no way I can ascertain your identity. That is, unless you volunteer information in terms of your N#, your real name, etc. This is a very proud bunch, and many are happy to inject their real names into the fray, which I discourage time and again, as it can be used to track down the real you, should an FAA investigator determine that whatever you bragged about online deserves enforcement.

Like I said, I have no idea who you are unless you post your N#, a photo of your N#, your real name and exact location, or some other uniquely identifying piece of data. How many 182's are there in the Tahoe area? Quite a few I imagine. How many Zane's? Not many. I'm pooched.

mauleace wrote:

As our fearless leader has pointed out, it pretty easy to take pot shots with the anonymity of the internet

There is a time and a place for everything. The idea that the internet is anonymous is naive. This a great topic.

Too many witnesses at Big Creek, Mc Call and Minden. And now this. It seems that one of the risks he has not fully evaluated are the consequences that the FAA might bring down on him.

The flying decisions were outside of my comfort level for sure. But the decision to share what has been shared here is hard to understand. "Anything you say can and will be held against you".

The internet is not a guarantee of privacy. This stuff is out there the entire world to see. With that many eyeballs, be careful what you share.

Sharing the nature of the series of events without the details would have been a less risky way to help us learn.

You missed my point.

I wasn't refering to the anonymity of aktahoe1.

The name callers use the fact that they are not face to face to make comments they likely would not otherwise.

The whole point of the original post is not lost. I personally read every thing I can to try to learn "what not to do." As a greenhorn pilot (88hrs) the information I glean here is very useful. So I want to say a big THANK YOU to all the guys with the guts to share the "UH OH's" and know that it may indeed help someone somewhere that you have never met or heard of. As for the name calling: Didn't your momma teach you that "It's not what you say, but how you say it that counts."