Backcountry Pilot

[Squawk1200 offline]

Howdy,

It's been a while since I posted here, but I've been so fired up about the Past Johnson Creek flying pictures that I've decided to make the trek next year.

I've never been to Idaho, but I learned to fly in New Mexico. I do have some exposure to high DA. For the first trip I'd figure to stay with Johson Creek-type strips. What I'd like to get is a feeling for what would be off limits for a first timer and what you guys felt comfortable with on your first trip. I'll be flying a 185.

Bill

[skymaule offline]

Bill,
Here is what I wish someone would have told me. "Go on-line and find an instructor to schedule a few hours of dual with." McCall, Cascade, or Challis.
This was our first time. Flying in Canyons was brand new to me. We did all right, but next year, the first thing on my list before going in is to get some dual. There have been five accidents in the last two weeks out there. I cant help but think that most of them wouldn't have happened if they would have had some instruction on how to fly in canyons. Best wishes

Mark

[Green Hornet offline]

What Mark said and you can buy a copy of Galen Hanselman's Fly Idaho & or the DVD. If you have not done Canyon flying there is more to it than DA. The navigation and airspeed with flap configuration is essential knowledge.

[Squawk1200 offline]

Thanks for the quick replies guys. I was planning on a long trip anyways, solo, so I'll stop in McCall and get some dual. Or maybe some instruction between now and then at a couple of places I know of in New Mexico or Colorado, schedule permitting.

Also, what are the strips that most would consider "too risky" for a 180/185? Looks like Mile High and Soldier Bar might be cutting it too close. Again, this is just looking at it from video.

Bill

[Zzz]

Bill, this is a great thread on the topic:

http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=466

Talks about many different aspects of going into 3U2, specifically.

[CAVU offline]

Hi Bill,

There's nothing in Galen's book that your airplane can't handle with a light load. Really, it's a matter of proficiency, familiarity and the right conditions. My own comfort level doesn't include several of the strips mentioned in the book, but there's no doubt that my airplane in the right hands could do it. Learning how to fly this area is about the most fun I've ever had. Enjoy!

CAVU

[Squawk1200 offline]

Hi Bill,

There's nothing in Galen's book that your airplane can't handle with a light load. Really, it's a matter of proficiency, familiarity and the right conditions. My own comfort level doesn't include several of the strips mentioned in the book, but there's no doubt that my airplane in the right hands could do it. Learning how to fly this area is about the most fun I've ever had. Enjoy!

CAVU

Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely get the book. I have a friend that's pretty proficient and feels that he could make it into mile high, but doesn't think its worth the risk. I'm pretty confident in my shortfield skills but have no experience with any kind of technical aproach like these. I'll play it safe the first year for sure, taking the mountain fly course as well. Most likely i'll be solo---almost 800 lbs under gross. Getting my flying done by 10 AM. Lastly, from another thread, I'll blast out to New Mexico and spend some time hitting some higher altitude airports to get used to it again.

Thanks again for the info guys,

Bill

[Matt 7GCBC offline]

Again the 185 is a very capable aircraft and could go into all the strips in Galen's book. A 206 has also been into all of the strips, including Dewey. Just curious, out of the folks that have been into Mile Hi, how many have been into Dewey and Simmons. Everyone always talks about Mile Hi, but I consider Dewey Moore to be more difficult with its down in the canyon short turn to final and Simmons narrow clearing with the canted runway not to mention the short field, UPSTREAM departure.
Just remember too that you don't have to go to Lori's full course. She is also able to schedule dual separate from the courses. There are plenty of local pilots that would be happy to give you a tour of the area and airstrips. If I'm not available, I have plenty of friends that would be happy to accomodate, some are CFIs as well. We'd all rather see someone introduced in a safe manner rather than try to go it alone with a bad outcome. I feel the best use of your time, if you have the time, is still a full backcountry seminar, though. Some people just want a taste before they order the full pint.
Matt

[Squawk1200 offline]

If I'm not available, I have plenty of friends that would be happy to accomodate, some are CFIs as well.
Matt Conklin

Thanks for the info and offer.

Bill

[iceman offline]

Bill, There's no reason to go to mile Hi as there's nothing there. Unless you just want to brag that you did it. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't warrant the risk of landing uphill, under full power just to get out and walk around. There's no fish there either. Soldier bar, Cabin Creek and Vines are all on Big creek and all have great fishing so there's no need to go to Dewey Moore, which is also on Big Creek, and risk pranging your airplane. Airplanes have been gobbled up at much easier strips up there than Dewey Moore. Dewey claimed a cub the week before our fly in and Mahoney claimed a Maule...and I'm sure you saw the 182 in the trees at JC although the 182 was a slightly different occurrance than the fault of the strip being hard to land at. JC is one of the easiest up there and it claims it's number every year. I think it's just the unfamiliarity of flying in close proximity of canyon walls and trees that flusters some.

[Squawk1200 offline]

Bill, There's no reason to go to mile Hi as there's nothing there. Unless you just want to brag that you did it. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't warrant the risk of landing uphill, under full power just to get out and walk around. There's no fish there either. Soldier bar, Cabin Creek and Vines are all on Big creek and all have great fishing so there's no need to go to Dewey Moore, which is also on Big Creek, and risk pranging your airplane. Airplanes have been gobbled up at much easier strips up there than Dewey Moore. Dewey claimed a cub the week before our fly in and Mahoney claimed a Maule...and I'm sure you saw the 182 in the trees at JC although the 182 was a slightly different occurrance than the fault of the strip being hard to land at. JC is one of the easiest up there and it claims it's number every year. I think it's just the unfamiliarity of flying in close proximity of canyon walls and trees that flusters some.

Iceman,

Thanks for the post. The more I look at some of the pictures and the lack of "wiggle room," I'm inclined to agree with you. With my old 180 I would pretty regularly operate out of 600' so I'm confident that I'd be able to land it. But like you said, there's just no reason to other than ego. These damn 180's/185's are getting so expensive it's just not worth the risk of tearing up an airplane that's worth more than our house.

Thanks again for the input,

Bill

[iceman offline]

I had a long conversation with a local up there about Dewey Moore several years ago. He said the approach and landing at Wilson Bar is very similar to Dewey but Wilson has more maneuver room. You do the same right turn to final after flying up the canyon over the stream and land going up hill. He said Dewey is almost exactly the same but everything is shorter.. The turn to final is made while decending to touchdown just after crossing the creek and it is shorter but more of an uphill roll out. Still I'll take Wilson bar, although it is still on my to do list. I've looked it over enough to feel I can do Wilson bar next year. Shearer and Cayuse are also fairly easy and good fishing last time I was at them...

[58Skylane offline]

Matt.....your still around? I hadn't seen a post from you in a while. Pat from KEUL.

[skybobb offline]

N4653B---

I don't think you would have trouble with a few of the back country strips. Some I can think of that you should be able to handle fairly easy would be Johnson Creek, Sulphur Creek, Big Creek, and Indian Creek. Chamberlain Basin is not too bad either. As long as you are good at slow flight and can turn around in a canyon you should be OK. Bob

[skybobb offline]

N4653B----- I forgot to mention I have some videos of some of these strips on Youtube. To check them out you can go to www.Youtube.com/skybobb then search for either Big Creek, Sullphur Creek, Chamberlin Basin. I haven't got my Johnson Creek video posted as yet. Bob

[shortfielder offline]

Bill
I live in Durango Colorado. I do a lot of flying in SE Uath. The strips aren't nearly as nice as Idaho as far as being a destination, but the scenery is spectacular,and there are ALOT of strips with varying degrees of difficulty to practice on, and hone your skills.
If that is something that would interest you, get Galen's Fly Utah book, and map, and go play. If you would like company, let me know and I will show ya some of my favorites.
Learn all ya can, it just keeps getting better. There's also some good books out there that will give ya some good pointers. There are theads here that talk about those. Sparky's Mountain Bible should probably be at the top of the list.
Gary

[Grassstrippilot offline]

I tell people that are interested in the backcountry to start with these three things: 1) Be very proficient/comfortable in slow flight, 2) accurate spot landings, and 3) Be comfortable flying in close proximity of terrain.

Don't discount some of the "easy" strips. Johnson Creek has a higher accident rate than the others combined...most likely because people see this beautiful strip in a magazine and think they can go there no problem. It's easy to get high, and then hot if you don't know what you are doing. Read some good books and get some instruction.

[Squawk1200 offline]

Thanks to all for the input and great advice. I'm going to take the next few months to absorb the suggested reading. When I go next year, I'll have plenty of time to get to McCall early and get some dual as well. And thanks to shortfielder for offering to fly with me. Work permitting I might be able to take you up on that. Definately going to be making some trips to Ruidoso so I can get comfortable again at altitude.

Thanks,
Bill