Hi,
First post here I've been looking around for a few days. Im not a pilot, lets start with that, done a small amount of flying with other pilots, Navajo's and 150's. Anyways, on with my question. Im considering getting my pilots license in town opposed to going out of state to do it which would be cheaper but I'd have to be out of town for quite awhile. The flight school Im thinking about going to suggests the national average is 70 hrs to get license. That seems a little high to me.
So for my question...How can you not get screwed into having to fly more hours then you need?
Also, Any other suggestions before I start doing this? I have just started seriously thinking about this but Im pretty stoked. Thanks

Welcome!

As a CFI, my biggest advice is STUDY STUDY STUDY! Go get a Jeppesen Private Pilot kit or similar material. Take a month or two and read all you can prior to starting. The more you know prior to taking the controls the more successful you'll be and the less the CFI has to teach you.

70 hrs is approx the avg for a PPL, but don't worry, a motivated student will be closer to 45-55 hrs. Save up $$$ so you don't have to quit half way through due to financial reasons, and then restart months later. But don't get me wrong, a PPL is pricey, and it isn't getting any cheaper.

Good luck and keep us updated.

Hey Rocket, welcome.

If you plan on living and flying in Alaska, then I'd go find the grumpiest local gray - haired instructor I could and beg him/her to take me on as a primary student. You'll be miles ahead of the game, IMHO.

I can't say for sure how long it should take, 70 seems a little excessive...that is unless you have to spread the training out over a couple of years. Shouldn't be over 50 with concentrated effort. It ain't rocket science, or many of us would be stuck riding our bicycles.

One suggestion is to find yourself an airplane, something cheap and in reasonable condition, C150 or the like. You'll pay 12 - 15K and sell it for the same when your done and you'll come out better than renting in the end.

gb

Well, I was born in interior Alaska and lived here all my life. I know a bunch of old pilots but none are willing(or so I would assume) to get there instructor ticket and give me lessons. Just how it is I guess. Im just tired of hunting,fishing off the road system or paying a down payment on a plane to have someone else fly me in.
Im thinking about a pacer. It seems best for my budget. We'll see what happens.

alaskanrocket wrote:Well, I was born in interior Alaska and lived here all my life. I know a bunch of old pilots but none are willing(or so I would assume) to get there instructor ticket and give me lessons. Just how it is I guess. Im just tired of hunting,fishing off the road system or paying a down payment on a plane to have someone else fly me in.
Im thinking about a pacer. It seems best for my budget. We'll see what happens.

Don Lee in Talkeetna is great with Pacers. Not sure if he will do primary instruction - he specializes in more advance stuff like off-airport and float training - but in this economy he might be willing to do anything. Plus you might get some time on skis (your feet AND the plane ) and you can find cheap lodging in Talkeetna this time of year.

http://www.alaskafloats.com/

Otherwise I know a couple gray-haired curmudgeons that meet gbflyer's description in Fairbanks.

Seventy hours is pretty close to the "national average" for completion of a private pilot's certificate. That said, that includes folks who pretty much play at it, flying once a month, etc. Our students average about 45 to 48 hours, which is pretty realistic, I think in a place that actually has some weather.

Get in touch with Francie Thomas in FAI and talk her into teaching you to fly. She works out of Tamarack Air. If the person you're considering initials are CC--don't even think about it. Send me a PM if you like. I spent 19 years flying out of FAI.

MTV

Well it's going to cost some money but if your sure u want to learn do this.
BUY A PLANE. PREPAY for your lessons

This will save u time and money in the long run and let u enjoy your licence when u get it. Then get an instructor that will let you do lots of solo work once you solo.

If u rent a plane every hour you spend training feel so expensive ($140-180) per hour. Once you own one it feels dumb not to fly it, and once u solo u can go up and practice your landings and maneuvers for 6-8 gallons an hour so even if you decide to put in an extra 20 hours for the test it really doesn't cost that much extra.

Just my 2 cents but I tried it both ways.

This brings to mind a saying that I have heard and found to be true. If it Floats, F&^%$, or Flies it is cheaper to rent . In all seriousness it is true. I have seen people try to save money trying to own buy the airplane rather than rent. Never quite turns out that way.

If you can find a cheap rental for approx $100/hr that is 4500 for your rent during your training. That's not bad seeing how you will easily spend that much "owning" a plane and paying for annual, parts, and gas. Unfortunate truth is that flying is expensive, if you want to own a plane do it because you love it and want the freedom, but never own an aircraft to "save money" on anything it just won't happen!

Good luck to you flying is great, spend the time studying, it will make the difference. If you are an active student you will get more out of it than that guy who shows up and flies but is unprepared with the books.

Mike

Agree with all said. If getting your ticket in under he 70hrs avg is your goal, make sure you have the time and money set aside to fly several times/week. I would say at least 3. Getting proficient and staying that way will minimize the time needed.

I did my flight training in western WA in the summertime-- tried to fly at least 3 times a week, and got my ticket right at the 54 hour mark in 3-1/2 months. The longer you take (calendar-wise) and the less often you fly, the more hours it'll take. I rented the whole time, and bought a C150 (same as i trained in) a month after my checkride. In retrospect, it woulda probably be cheaper to buy earlier-on, but then again you can have new owner/new airplane issues which can easily distract you from your flying. 6 of one half dozen of the other I guess. Some say train in a taildragger, I'm not sure that's the best way even if that's what you wanna end up flying. A C150 is a pretty damn good trainer, and you don't need the taildragger issues (crosswinds, etc) complicating the learning to fly thing. Leaving the t/w til later as part of your advanced training seems like an OK idea to me.

Everyone is different. As someone said earlier, STUDY STUDY STUDY on your own time, use flight simulator, watch aircraft ops at the airport, listen to ATC live feeds, everything. Just immerse yourself in the study of aviation.

I did my Private over a period of 8 months, and took the checkride with 40.4 hours in my lookbook. That was due to a superb instructor who was able to combine several experience requirements into single flights. I won't lie though, money was a huge factor and I wanted to spend as little as possible.

Maybe approaching flight training with the single objective of "not getting screwed" isn't the best place to start. If getting screwed is getting overcharged for poor instruction, I guess that qualifies. Keep asking around, maybe try supercub.org too, lots of AK guys there. That private CFI who will work with you how you want to learn, Part 61 instruction is what you want.

And yeah, rent a plane. Nothing like a little engine trouble and mechanic's bill to throw a wrench into your flight training. You can walk away from a rental, and the extra money per hour is worth that.

Today it has gotten more complicated for sure. Back in my day (1971) at Ohio State University, everyone in my class (at least 20 people) got their private in 38 hours TT and $500 out of pocket, plus we got a few credits toward graduation. It was military style. I think we flew 3 days a week and ground school two nights per week. I am not sure how good the new pilots were, but we did it like automation in a factory.

Sorry for being one of the guys to bump the national average up!!!

I took my time and wanted to make sure I had it down before taking the checkride. I knew I was going to be flying anyway so the extra hours before the checkride didn't make much difference to me except for my comfort level.

If your goal is to get a ticket in as few hours as possible, then yes, a nosedragger is probably the way to go. There's a strong argument that learning in a TW will make you a better pilot, though it might take longer. (fire away all you TW guys! )

Getting a home flight simulator can help shave some time off and can be a fairly cheap investment, especially if you already have a reasonable computer. It doesn't work so well for getting an actual feel for the airplane but it really helps with instrument work.

Study study study. I spent quite a while going through the books before even starting lessons. That helped a lot and I did great on the written.

Try to fly several times a week, if possible. I was only able to fly on the weekends and that week gap between flying doesn't help.

Sit down with your CFI before hand and talk about all of the things that are required for the practical and what you'll be tested on. I didn't and ended up spending more time on certain aspects and less time on others than I should have. My one beef with my CFI was not clearly defining what was expected and how the training would proceed, and I was clueless about what I should have asked.

You might look around for independent CFI's, as well. Might end up being less expensive than the "in town" price, can't say about the state price. Often these folks can't directly advertise because of FBO and airport agreements or airport insurance requirements. On the other hand, buyer beware too.

If possible, try to have the budget for worst case of 70hrs or even a few hours more. Don't tell the CFI how much you budgeted though.

Try to make flying friends and get a good mentor. They'll help keep you motivated both to get your ticket and after it's in your hands.

Buying vs renting... well, it can be a lot cheaper or not depending on the airplane and it's condition. If you know of another person who's really interested in learning or someone who's fine with selling you a share to learn in, a partnership can be a significant savings. Of course that's frought with potential issues as well.

Keep stoked! It's a challenge and a blast!!!

I certainly dig the motivation to save money.
But even at the going rate, if it takes someone 100 hours, but they are quality hours, then it is still cheap learning at the price.
One hour with a bad instructor is too much, 1000 hours with a true instructor is a prize beyond price!

We've all heard tales of foks trained enough to pass a checkride in 14 or 21 or 30 days only to kill themselves when the need arose to actually aviate.

Never been there, but I would think 100 hours would be about the stone minimum to be anywhere near safe in Alaska. That place kills 10000 hour pilots every year for the slightest of mistakes.

Sometimes I think too much of an emphasis put on the 10 hour solo/40 hour license mark. jmo!

Another one here bumping up the average Finished last year.

I think the reality is that if you have a family and a job, it is going to take longer. Between work, family and weather there were times when I went 6 weeks between flights.

Another thing to think about is whether your instructor will be with you throughout. I flew with 4 different instructors, which had its benefits, but finishing quickly was not one of them.

I'm another one who's skewing the statistics upward!

I'm sure you've heard the old saw: "Fast, Good, Cheap: pick two."

In my case, I didn't care so much about "fast", but could only afford reasonably "cheap," and definitely wanted "good."

I found a slightly off-the-beaten track grass strip with Mogas and a cheap old 150 rental. I was lucky enough to have a friend of a friend who was a CFI who agreed to instruct me in the beginning.

I wanted to be as competent as possible when I got the ticket, and didn't mind some extra hours, so I did spin and upset training, extra night flying, transitioned to several different planes, did way more solo cross country than needed (this was before GPS, which is totally cheating), simulated aft CG in the rental 172 with weight in the rear seats in preparation for passengers, etc.

It's true that I could have done most of that stuff after I got the ticket, but I like to be over-prepared, so that I can safely under-perform.

Alaskanrocket..I'll add my two bits..soloed in 15 hrs, checkride at 55 hrs. Started in Jan, got my checkride in August..would have been by May but weather and rental availability..it took longer. Had set aside the money based on how many hours it took from others who had gotten their PPL recently at the time. Did all of my instruction with one CFI...night course at Comm College with same instructor. After I got my PPL in Aug, got my tailwheel with two different instructors in Oct. After that flew with 8 different instructors in the next year in different planes to see what I wanted. Two years after PLL, I got my first plane, a C-170 and flew it for 10 years ( still flew other planes on occasion). and have flown my present ride fo 4 1/2 years. As others have stated, make up your mind to do it, have the $$$ at hand, fly regularly whether it be in your own plane or rental, and get it done. I've known too many people who started out like a house afire and then just let it fissle.
Good luck..take advantage of any flying opportunities you can get..it will only lead to a better understanding of the privilege we pilots enjoy. The ONLY flying I ever turned down was a ride in a Mooney Mite...I was too big for the plane.

Thanks for all the great replies. It was more inspiring than anything. I think I'll start with that PPL kit and go from there.
Oh and don't get me wrong I love flying I'm not trying to do anything cheaper. There's something about that feeling right when the plane picks up off the ground that gives me the biggest sh*& eating grin.

Welcome Alaskanrocket

I did just what GBflyer said above. I paid for a ground school and then did a lot of studying on my own. There are CD's on ebay that will go over all the questions and answers and you can listen to them as you drive. Gleim makes books that do it too but I would suggest doing the ground school too. Mine cost $275. Get your ground school out of the way.

Then buy a plane and find that gray haired guy to teach you. (my 150 is for sale and I always wanted to fly to Alaska ). I lucked out and my teacher taught his son to fly in my plane so we just traded the rental for lessons. I did my solo work in my 150 at about $15/hr for fuel. It was probably 90 hrs for me mostly because I didn't have anywhere to go. I went flying almost every night after work the first year. I spent a LOT of time in the patten and probably had a thousand landings before I decided to take my check ride.

When your done you can sell your plane and get a better one. Planes don't really depreciate, so if you stay up on the maintenance, you can probably get all your money back when you sell it.

Jerry

alaskanrocket wrote:Thanks for all the great replies. It was more inspiring than anything. I think I'll start with that PPL kit and go from there.
Oh and don't get me wrong I love flying I'm not trying to do anything cheaper. There's something about that feeling right when the plane picks up off the ground that gives me the biggest sh*& eating grin.

heh, heh, heh... your in for it now son....