Backcountry Pilot • In Flight Engine Failure

In Flight Engine Failure

Near misses, close calls, and lessons learned the hard way. Share with others so that they might avoid the same mistakes.
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

piperpainter wrote:Do you have any pictures of the actual road you landed on after the fact? I think you did a great job. =D> I just hope all of us can remain calm and clear headed enough to do this should we ever encounter the same situation.

I do. My report was submitted to highlight the ordeal. The road was Coal Springs Road and I landed in a westerly direction.

Dodging obstacles on the ground. I was gritting my teeth going through this cattle guard.
Image

Looking east (upwind) from the road. You can see it was pretty open where I touched down. It just got crowded the further west I traveled.

Image

Feel free to ask questions and I will fill in the blanks. Let's all learn from each other.

Rich
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Nice work!
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Fantastic.... Its sure nice to hear you telling us what happened rather than reading someone's interpretation or what "likely" happened in a report 1 year down the road.... Great work!
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Way to go Rich!

While I appreciated hearing the story in person last weekend, the pictures do a great job of setting the scene you were up against. Looks like you picked a great spot! Its not about saving the aluminum, its about saving your ass! Nice work!

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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

rlhawk11 wrote:There is still more to the story. Tell us about how the three of you got back home and the problems in transportation, picking up your camping gear at JC and McCall, and getting a vehicle to get home in. Also how you replaced your plane in 10 days and what with.

Hawk



Well it seems like GrassStripPilot and Hawk are on a similar track. Like Paul Harvey used to say: Here is the rest of the story.

After taking care of things like the FAA, NTSB, securing the aircraft and thanking everyone who helped, we still had to figure out how we were going to get home.
Brent & Bob N952WK landed at West Fork, MT and returned to the scene with Jim Hollis in the courtesy van provided by West Fork Lodge. Tex & Heidi Irwin welcomed us to
their lodge where the quest to figure out how we get home began. That is after a couple of very strong adult beverages.

Remember, all of our gear was at Johnson Creek and we were in West Fork, MT. Bob returned to Johnson Creek with Brent. Brent ferried Bob and all of our gear from JC
to Mc Call, ID. I began trying to locate a rental car since my insurance policy did not include transportation after an incident. After all, we are supposed to be
dead after an aviation incident. Right? This might be something you want to review with your insurance agent.
Well we were still verticle and had a problem on our hands. There was not a rental car available within 350 miles of West Fork or Darby, MT due to some event in the
area. Bob even tried to locate a car in McCall to no avial. We considered buying a junker car and renting a trailer from U-Haul to get ourselves and gear back to the
West Coast.

Bob eventually located a 21' U-Haul truck between Mc Call and Boise with help from the FBO at Mcall. Now the problem was reduced to getting from Darby, MT to McCall
ID. This is not an easy task, since there are no direct roads between the points let alone any rental cars available.
Now it began time to call in some markers of people I know through the Recreational Aviation Foundation (TheRAF.org). BTW, I recommend that you support this group
because they are getting the job done. I found a friend, Carl Hicks, in Missoula, MT and he was at West Fork within 2 hrs after hearing what happened. Unfortunately
we could not get two passengers and all their gear recovered from 27Z into Carls' plane (something about the passengers being too fat. HMMMM. Yup it is true.) So we
loaded what we could and Carl flew us to McCall. Carl then returned to West Fork, picked up our gear and shipped it to me.

Guys & gals: This is some community we play in. Carl, you will never know how much we appreciate your generosity and assistance during this stressful time.

Well, we got to McCall and began our journey home in a U-Haul truck. Now we all know how advertising tends to fluff things up. Nobody fluffs it up more than U-Haul.

Take my word for it. IT IS NOT AN ADVENTURE IN MOVING while traveling from McCall to Concord, CA in a U-HAUL.
We arrived home to stressed out significant others. My wife had a completely different take on the incident than me. Something about 'You want to fly again!???'.

Things went very smoothly with my insurance company (Global Aerospace). They were on the scene the following Monday and had 27Z in a boneyard on Wednesday and I was
paid in full within 3 weeks.

I immediately began a search for a replacement plane while getting a lot of flak from my wife. I explained I was just checking the market. I located candidates in
AZ, TX, PA, CT and MT. I was even checking flights to go look at them.

Now here is a nice twist. Remember the plane that GrassStripPilot mentioned. I encouraged him to buy this plane, as I knew its' history since it was delivered from
the factory. The plane has been at my home base (KSZP) since new, maintained by my IA since new and I have teased the owner about buying it if anything ever happened
to my C-205 (which I have flown for 37 yrs.). Well I bet you have guessed what happened. I got a sympathy call from the owner of N8450Z about 10 days after the
incident and he let me know his plane was for sale. My wife asked me how my day was when she returned home and I told her 'FANTASTIC!!!' She seemed a bit surprised
because I had been somewhat sad since losing 27Z. She was quite pleased :) that I had a FANTASTIC day, but her demeanor changed :( when I told her why (I had
purchased 50Z).

The waters have calmed and we have taken a couple of family trips in 50Z. All it really took was driving her from Clayton, Ca to Phoenix, AZ and she realized how
important 'our' plane is to 'us'. I have never doubted the wisdom of my wife and she came through. I have about 20 hrs on the plane and put VG's on a few weeks ago.
I'm on my way to Phoenix next week to pick up 27Z (Yes, I purchased it from the insco.) I'll be preparing the new plane (another C-205 built 23 airplanes after 27Z)
with the following that I will remove from 27Z:

HD nose gear
800x6 mains
HD brakes
LEES exhaust system
GAMIS
Alternator
Brackett Air filter (yes, I'll look at the air box very closely again)
EI engine analyzer
EI Oil Temp
EI fuel flow computer
EI Mux box (It is amazing the story revealed by looking at the EGTs and CHTs after the engine failure)
Rosen visors
Horizon tachometer

I will also have a good supply of C-205 parts warehoused in my hangar.

I have some items for sale and I'll be listing them in FS section after I get what I want from 27Z. PM me if you need something.

Now, there is one small problem with the replacement plane. It has a new panel in it, and the instruments are in the wrong places compared to 27Z. I guess I will
just have to live with this problem. I can actually see all of the instrument while flying.

Here is a pic of the new (to me) plane:

Image

And here is that panel I need to get comfortable with :) :)

Image
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

patrol guy wrote:rfinkle,

You get another excellent job from me too. I am curious if you had a plan "B" if that wide spot and road had not been there?

I find myself in lonely rough country in West Virginia often, and there are sometimes roads or rivers in the valleys, but mostly it is just more trees. I would like to hear from folks that have made successful crash landings in tree covered mountains.

I have two plans that I hope might work.
1. if there is a wide enough river I would do some mexican water skiing near the shore and surf into the river bank slowed down some. (my excuse for practicing that non-sense).
2. glide into the valley area to keep up some speed, then climb up the next slope right at the tree tops and push in just as stall happens.

Have no idea if either of those is a good option, but they are AN option.

The above ideas are for low flying pipeline routes. Years ago I did have another plan when I use to fly from Ohio to NC on weekends... at altitude in champs and citabrias. I wore a parachute and if things didn't go good, I was going to eject the door, put on my shop goggles, and cross my legs then pull the cord.


Patrol Guy

Plan B during this incident was Painted Rock Lake. I'm glad I didn't need to execute Plan B. I had enough altitude to get back to the road as you can see by the turns about a point on the google track.

Normally Plan B in this type of terrain is on a ridge, going uphill and trying to make impact with the tail. I have no idea if it will work, but it seems that a lot of energy would be absorbed before the gear hit and the plane flipped on its' back.

Rich
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Sad I couldn't by such a nice 205, but really happy that you got it! Can't wait to see it.

If you can, you should post a pic of the google earth view of the area, or at least the lat/long just to give a close up of the road and area.
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Darinh wrote:
I post this at the expense of opening up myself and family to some liability but if it could save people and planes then so be it. .


If I read the map right the strip is in Montana. No liability what so ever.
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Glad it worked out OK for you and your still here to tell this story. I'll learn from it for sure. Thanks for sharing your experience.
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Rich,

Great flying! I'm glad to see it worked out well for you without serious injuries. Any idea the distance from touchdown to stopping?

There's lots here for other pilots to learn, so thanks for your detailed post.
=D>
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Good job Rich.
Glad you are OK, and now have a great story to tell around the fire.
Gary
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Great report from which we can all learn. This is valuable stuff!
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Darinh wrote:Rich,

I can't believe I haven't heard about this. My family owns a cabin 4 miles up the canyon (and 1300' strip) from where you "landed". In fact, if you look at your google earth picture about halfway between where you landed above Painted Rocks and where you made your turn north, you will see a small pond just left of your track. Our strip runs north/south along the ponds. Too bad you didn't know about it then, likely your plane would be in one piece.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=45.638887,-114.29369&spn=0.099498,0.222988&t=h&z=13&vpsrc=6

You can see one of our ponds at the bottom of this linked google maps page.

Here's a close up of the strip.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=45.595408,-114.32107&spn=0.006223,0.013937&t=h&z=17&vpsrc=6

I post this at the expense of opening up myself and family to some liability but if it could save people and planes then so be it. Having said this, please don't use this strip unless it is an emergency like Rich had or you have made prior arrangements. We operate a 182 out of this strip so you should have been able to get your 205 in fine. My parents are there most of the time. Sorry this information wasn't out sooner to save your bird but I am happy to hear you are ok, aircraft can be replaced.


This is the exact reason I had my private strip charted and on the databases... Yeah,,, it does open me up to some liability but a fellow pilot in trouble just has to hit 'nearest' on his/her GPS and my runway will give them a safe out in an otherwise dangerous situation.. I would rather shake their hand and help them load their plane up on a flatbed then meet the next of kin.

Ben.
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

A private stip on a chart is private. Private meens stay away. If sombody lands at your place in an emergency and kills themself it is not your problem. Now if you invite them then that is a different story.

Tim
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

qmdv wrote:A private stip on a chart is private. Private meens stay away. If sombody lands at your place in an emergency and kills themself it is not your problem. Now if you invite them then that is a different story.

Tim


A VERY money hungry lawyer from the prestigious law firm of "Dewey , Cheatum & Howe" will spend months looking to pierce the armor of a landowner to get some cash for his client...... [-X [-X [-X

I guess I have two questions.

1- Define 'Emergency' #-o

2- Define 'invite' #-o

Just sayin.....

Ben.
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

qmdv wrote:A private stip on a chart is private. Private means stay away. If somebody lands at your place in an emergency and kills them self it is not your problem. Now if you invite them then that is a different story.

Tim


IMO private does not mean stay away. It means it is a non government strip. Just ask for permission before you go in is my SOP.
I had this conversation with the most respected person on this forum, the big kahuna, the chief, the commander, the man, he stated he lands any strip and if the owner doesn't want him there he apologizes and leaves never to return.

Good day
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Great post and thread. I am at annual inspection point next week. Will probably remove the airbox and have it rebuilt. It was welded twice previously... and always cracks again. New metal is called for I think. I assume you saw no cracks at all since you used a mirror and light. Amazing that a chunk that big let loose to go up the intake. Those boxes must vibrate all over the place.
Anybody experienced in dampening or bracing the box? Would like to do that after investing in a box rebuild.
Also, do some of the insurance companies try to dodge a payout if a previous welded crack lets go and f*******s everything up? Seems like they might try to say it was the mechanic's fault and not cover the damages.... Any thoughts here would be appreciated. Might be another thread though.
Good landing after she quit. Bet that cattle guard looked mighty narrow while barreling through!
Thanks for the post and follow ups !!!!!
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Tim[/quote]

IMO private does not mean stay away. It means it is a non government strip. Just ask for permission before you go in is my SOP.
I had this conversation with the most respected person on this forum, the big kahuna, the chief, the commander, the man, he stated he lands any strip and if the owner doesn't want him there he apologizes and leaves never to return.

Good day[/quote]

Sounds like a classic case of aviation SOP's... "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission"!!
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Re: In Flight Engine Failure

Tim[/quote]

IMO private does not mean stay away. It means it is a non government strip. Just ask for permission before you go in is my SOP.
I had this conversation with the most respected person on this forum, the big kahuna, the chief, the commander, the man, he stated he lands any strip and if the owner doesn't want him there he apologizes and leaves never to return.

Good day[/quote]

Sounds like a classic case of aviation SOP's... "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission"!!
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