For those of you have an instrument rating, do you find it helpful as a full-time/part-time backcountry pilot? Would you rather have put the 5K in the tanks instead?

Me personaly, I'd rather put the 5K in the tanks and the plane. Then again, I don't have an IFR panel in my plane.

But, if your one of the guys that are from the western part of OR are further away from the backcountry (let's say Idaho for example) and you want to get home (or leave home) but the ceiling is low at your home base, I think getting your IFR ticket is worth it as long as you fly alot to justify it. That's just one example I guess. I don't think it will help you get out of the mountians much unless your in a big enough valley or high enough to make a radio call to Salt Lake Center or approach or whoever you need to to get an IFR routing. I don't know much about the IFR world, so that's about all I can give.

I think it would be very usefull up there in the northeast, though. Then again, with all the traffic you have up there, it might be a pain getting clearances and what have you. If you got the money and want to do it, I'd say go for it! Again, I think it would be useful for other area's rather than just flying in and out of the backcountry.

I just got recurrent. I shoot more approaches than I do land on unimproved air strips. I'd rather do a bunch more of both but time doesn't permit. The IFR ticket allows me to leave the So Cal armpit when most other guys can't and the same with getting to destination. The main benefit in my opinion is that it has given me the confidence and training to proceed when I know I can and not to go when I (feel) I shouldn't. It's worth the money if you're going to stay current and if you use it. If you only intend to fly when it's VFR and clear or you just love that adrenalin rush of scud runnin you don't need it. Disclaimer: I don't condone scud runnin

I know that this topic was discussed ad naseum a couple of years ago, with some good points of view for both sides bantered about. Search it, it should be worth reading.

My own opinion... Not being instrument rated is like having a car and not being allowed to drive on the freeway. The training is a good physical and mental exercise. It teaches precision flying and discipline. The ability to stay upright in case of inadvertent IFR is a lifesaver. And... It's fun.

Flying is flying, and the more you do it the better you get at it. So even if IFR training doesn't directly relate to backcountry flying, the ability to control your airplane with more feel and understanding does.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:It teaches precision flying and discipline... So even if IFR training doesn't directly relate to backcountry flying, the ability to control your airplane with more feel and understanding does.

Gump

Likewise, a friend of mine compares it to earning your blackbelt. -DP

Just get it.

Tim

For me I would rather have 5k in the tank. I am a CFII, but live in CO where we hardly ever get the optimal conditions to use the rating. When it is IFR here there are either thunderstorms or icing. I guess if you live in an area where you could use it then go for it. Just make sure you keep current or it will go right out the window, and I mean more than the required 6 approaches, hold, intercept and tracking a radial for FAA currency.

I actually came to a similar crossroads a couple months ago - Keep saving for a real backcountry taildragger (Stinson, 170, etc.) or dump a portion of the cash into an instrument rating. Doing my TW this summer in a Cub was a real kick in the pants, and something I can't wait to do more of. That said, I am about 10 hrs into the instrument training now. It is a great deal of info to learn and keep on top of; but in its own right the challenge makes it satisfying. Can't wait to get back to "real" flying though and hang up the damn hood.

Like many CA pilots my plan is to keep my IMC experience to the 0.1 hrs of Hobbs time it takes on occasion to climb or descend through the marine layer on my way in or out of the coastal airports. During the summer it can lock you out for hours or days. It sucks having to drop everything you are doing to get back to the airport because it is closing in on you. I've been lucky getting Special VFR clearances but even that is a fleeting opportunity some days. When it's hard IFR in the valley here its either zero-zero in fog or pretty damn nasty. To get over any of the mountains when we have big weather usually means ice. I may be a wuss but I don't need to fly that bad. Any other time we can scoot up and down the valley pretty comfortably VFR under most cloud decks except when I shouldn't be out anyway.

At the end of the day I am flying an ideal instrument training platform right now and may not in the future. That's how I arrived at my decision to just get it done. I also needed a little more time to figure out Tim's (QMDV's) CA tax dodge before I lay some hard earned $$$ down on some new-to-me wings and then have to throw almost another 10% to the imbeciles here in Sacramento to blow on another social program.

Flynengr

GumpAir wrote:My own opinion... Not being instrument rated is like having a car and not being allowed to drive on the freeway. The training is a good physical and mental exercise. It teaches precision flying and discipline. The ability to stay upright in case of inadvertent IFR is a lifesaver. And... It's fun.

Flying is flying, and the more you do it the better you get at it. So even if IFR training doesn't directly relate to backcountry flying, the ability to control your airplane with more feel and understanding does.
Gump

I agree totally. IFR training refines precision aircraft control and airspeed management - all of which make for better backcountry flying. It adds to the utility of aircraft especially if one travels greater distances or along the coast-- and I second that it's fun training.

tj,
i would agree with bmurrish. i've had an instrument rating since 1980 and used it a lot when i flew bonanza's but now with my supercub i'll probably never use it again because i only fly for fun in cavu weather. all depends on your mission.
gary

d

I line up with GaryH (above)...depends upon your mission. I live in Southern Idaho and when it goes IFR here, it's not weather a 182 should generally be in (ice). So my IFR ticket would only work in limited circumstances. We get 300 days of sunshine per year in this part of the country. Your situation may be much different with warmer overcast that keeps you grounded too much. If I was in that situation I'm sure I would get my ticket just so I could get above the soup and fly more, plus all the other benefits that everyone extolls of the learning and skill-building.

If you're still looking for a way to spend some that 5k, I suggest something like the mountain flying seminars that Lori MacNichol runs in McCall, ID. Great training, great flying, learn new skills, meet new people, and see some great country - plus you get to log all those hours flying your plane to Idaho. http://www.mountaincanyonflying.com

I spent a day with one of her team flying the backcountry years ago. Jim had 25000 hours, most of it in the backcountry as chief pilot for the Forest Service. I learned a ton about slow flying in the mountains - highly recommended.

I'll echo Gump's remarks and add a few. If you fly long enough (that is and get out of the pattern), you will find yourself in the weather. If you do nothing more, it is comforting to have the confidence to make a 180 degree turn on the needles without panic.

I have done a little flying back east there. It was my experience that it was much easier to file IFR when going somewhere, especially in VFR conditions. Seems like there is RADAR service everywhere and as such GPS - direct clearances were handed out routinely. Really nice in the congested airspace areas.

Watch your PM.

Good luck.

gb

The question I have is all things being relative does the cost actually end at 5K $$? Technology is constantly on the move. I have flown safety co pilot with a lot of guys getting current and the thing I find is the difference in equipment. Waas GPS vs Old School and everything in between plus the cost of certification and updates I believe it would be more $$$$??

IMHO the best way to go. http://shebleaviation.com/pilot-trainin ... ng-course/

That is what I did and am glad I did it that way.

Tim

Tim,
Ok you have a Cessna 182 and they have a Cessna 172 and some kind of simulator. What about the differences in equipment? You get to the point that you get your ticket with their airplane and SIM & whatever avionics it has??? then you go to lets say a Maule or super Cub with different equipment avionics in different places and you get yet another CFI to get trained all over again. Or you get trained in your airplane but the Sim is different? My point here is to be trained in my aircraft but then I would prefer at minimum GPS/WAAS that I don't currently have installed. In a perfect world it would all sync up but in the real world it doesn't so add on the $$$$?? Granted it is all flying experience but repetition with the same equipment is how you get proficient. Or am I totally missing something ? Oh and the future is Next Gen?

I got mine a long time ago and at the time I was sure it made me a safer more confident pilot. I used it for a few years and had some less then fun experiences using it. With this ticket it opens up a whole new world that can decay around you faster then you would ever believe, single pilot IFR in the NW is something to take very seriously. I would much rather fly under it then in it on a winter day, even if it is a well below weather minimums as long as the visibility is good. This may sound stupid to some and for them it may be, if you do this kind of flying enough you know for yourself when you feel uncomfortable.

The road to where I am now is filled with experiences that add to the tool box, that instrument ticket had a part in it and I don't regret it. If I had it to do over again I probably would spend as much money as it takes to get good at navigation and real world IMC not simulated but not get the rating. You don't have to get an instrument rating to experience what it is like to be in some really awful weather. It may be difficult to get that real world experience unless you have a good relationship with a good CFII or an accomplished instrument pilot/friend. I would be real cautious who I jumped in an airplane with to go test the forces of mother nature.

I have had the closest to life and death experience with an instructor on board after I actually had the rating. He said we could make it to Yakima from Portland on a day when all the weather forecasting said we probably should not go. He was confident that if icing became an issue we would request a 180 and get out of it and head home. I had never in my life seen an airplane go from clear to buried in ice and neither had he. We asked Seattle for lower and they could not give it to us because they had another airplane at that altitude we asked for a 180 but by then we could not maintain altitude and we were descending at 500fpm. In the end we broke out about 500 feet above terrain but that was just by luck. We flew the Columbia Gorge home below the weather, we both felt we dodged a bullet that day. This is just one of quit a few real world IFR experiences that shape my attitude I would rather be under it then in it!

It is also a very hard rating to stay current with long term unless you have a use for it. I like to see what is in front and below me now!!!

Greg

It would be hard to use an instrument rating with straight floats. I am not willing to spend the money or lose the payload and speed for amphibs. I try to practice some flight maneuvers under the hood regularly so that I can get out of an unplanned "in the soup" situation.

Mauleguy wrote: I like to see what is in front and below me now!!!
Greg

I feel the same way.

I must be brain damaged... Yeah, I know I am...

But I find IMC, especially night IMC, relaxing and thoroughly enjoyable. And, again at night, I feel kinda cheated if I break out way above minimums. I love seeing the lights right at the bottom, and come sliding on down and making a greaser landing. The extra concentration always makes for heightened spatial awareness and depth perception. Shit's magic.

Gump