mtv wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:

mtv wrote:The California county which Reid/Hillview airport lies in has said they are going to prohibit the sale of 100LL fuel, due to the lead content.

AOPA announced that it has petitioned the FAA to prohibit that move, based on the fact that there are a lot of aircraft based at that airport that have no other option than burn 100LL. What that does is puts the FAA in a position where they've just been slapped with the news that an airport which has received AIP funds from the FAA is now in violation of the agreements its management signed to receive those AIP funds.

This is precisely how AOPA has kept the Santa Monica Airport open for decades, and is far better than a lawsuit. When an airport management accepts AIP funds, they are required to sign a lengthy and detailed agreement, which essentially says that if that airport fails to uphold their agreed upon conditions, they will be required to pay back the AIP funds they accepted.

I'm betting that in the case of Reid/Hillview that would amount to many millions of $$$. In the case of Santa Monica, that threat has kept the airport open for many years. The AIP agreements have a sunset date, effectively when the government has gotten the full utility from the AIP funds. So, for big projects like paving a runway, construction of taxiways, lighting, etc.....those monies will be subject to refund for many years.

THAT is how you get these folks' attention, NOT with a lawsuit, with the FAA and a contractual agreement that THEY signed.

MTV

The reason I don’t drive 100 MPH down some roads isn’t because it’s unsafe, with my car and me for many roads it isn’t, it’s because some cop will end up costing me thousands if I do it


The way you stop unwanted behavior you make it hurt, you make it really hurt to do it so others don’t want anything to do with what cost the last guy their job and pension, and that’s what lawsuits are for, and the reason I never gave AOPA a single dollar

What should be done is do make a full time job out of that city and also a part time job on holding many of those people INDIVIDUALLY liable.

I much rather have that happen than get a stupid hat and magazine to put in my bathroom from AOPA, or build and give away 200k re imagined (aka repainted) C150s

Seriously? Suing that county would result in nothing except a whole bunch of lawyers on both sides getting rich. Let’s see: who per chance might sit on that jury (if it ever got that far)? Ummm, local county residents, who are probably not going to be sympathetic to a bunch of whiny, rich aircraft owners.

Now, assuming the FAA enforces the provisions of the AIP CONTRACTS, as they did at Santa Monica, that county could be on the hook for hundreds of millions, to be paid back to the government.

And, no lawyers make money out of that deal. Check out the situation at SMO. The city tried to close the airport decades ago. The AOPA petitioned the FAA to enforce AIP contracts. Airport is still open. Yes, eventually, the city of Santa Monica will close that airport, but not until AIP investments are amortized.

So, it sounds like 93Kilo may be an attorney? Sue em, sue em!

MTV

And doing the nothing AOPA has been doing is working great?

I’d wager with the recent EPA SCOTUS ruling, maybe there are grounds, also why not try to go after those who are trying to push this nonsense, when someone is trying to attack you, one can curl up in a ball and hope they lose interest, or one can go weapons free, I think going after these politicians and their funders and filing lawsuits is the way to go, the strives the 2A as gotten recently have been due to lawsuits, not compromise

93k, what EXACTLY, are you doing in this fight?


What EXACTLY, do you want the rest of us to do?

StillLearning wrote:93k, what EXACTLY, are you doing in this fight?


What EXACTLY, do you want the rest of us to do?

We’ll that’s the thing

I’ve reached out to AOPA RAF etc, doesn’t seem anyone is mounting much of a defense

I’d be game to donate money or my time, I’ve called my elected types, unfortunately as a individual I am not rich enough or connected enough to fight this by me self

Like many here aviation is more than a hobby, it’s also how I feed me and mine… ADSB, 100LL, at this rate and trends there won’t be much flying being done to post pretty stories and pictures on BCP in 10yrs if only the most elite can fly, most of which likely more the cirrus type than backcountry folks

So by all means, as I asked before if anyone knows a group fighting the good fight, I’m all ears

So it appears there is no data that disputes the studies on 100LL on the blood levels of children near airports. There was even an implication that low lead levels were not consequential. Here is just one study of many that marginalize that idea pretty soundly. Few environmental toxins have been studied with data that is so repeatable.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/n ... 1113220203

Lots of people have been using alcohol free auto gas successfully for over three decades. The pain of change is going to be financial for most users who wish to use the new formulation, and practical for those that will get the stickers and log entries for the auto gas STC.

NineThreeKilo wrote:

mtv wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:

mtv wrote:The California county which Reid/Hillview airport lies in has said they are going to prohibit the sale of 100LL fuel, due to the lead content.

AOPA announced that it has petitioned the FAA to prohibit that move, based on the fact that there are a lot of aircraft based at that airport that have no other option than burn 100LL. What that does is puts the FAA in a position where they've just been slapped with the news that an airport which has received AIP funds from the FAA is now in violation of the agreements its management signed to receive those AIP funds.

This is precisely how AOPA has kept the Santa Monica Airport open for decades, and is far better than a lawsuit. When an airport management accepts AIP funds, they are required to sign a lengthy and detailed agreement, which essentially says that if that airport fails to uphold their agreed upon conditions, they will be required to pay back the AIP funds they accepted.

I'm betting that in the case of Reid/Hillview that would amount to many millions of $$$. In the case of Santa Monica, that threat has kept the airport open for many years. The AIP agreements have a sunset date, effectively when the government has gotten the full utility from the AIP funds. So, for big projects like paving a runway, construction of taxiways, lighting, etc.....those monies will be subject to refund for many years.

THAT is how you get these folks' attention, NOT with a lawsuit, with the FAA and a contractual agreement that THEY signed.

MTV

The reason I don’t drive 100 MPH down some roads isn’t because it’s unsafe, with my car and me for many roads it isn’t, it’s because some cop will end up costing me thousands if I do it


The way you stop unwanted behavior you make it hurt, you make it really hurt to do it so others don’t want anything to do with what cost the last guy their job and pension, and that’s what lawsuits are for, and the reason I never gave AOPA a single dollar

What should be done is do make a full time job out of that city and also a part time job on holding many of those people INDIVIDUALLY liable.

I much rather have that happen than get a stupid hat and magazine to put in my bathroom from AOPA, or build and give away 200k re imagined (aka repainted) C150s

Seriously? Suing that county would result in nothing except a whole bunch of lawyers on both sides getting rich. Let’s see: who per chance might sit on that jury (if it ever got that far)? Ummm, local county residents, who are probably not going to be sympathetic to a bunch of whiny, rich aircraft owners.

Now, assuming the FAA enforces the provisions of the AIP CONTRACTS, as they did at Santa Monica, that county could be on the hook for hundreds of millions, to be paid back to the government.

And, no lawyers make money out of that deal. Check out the situation at SMO. The city tried to close the airport decades ago. The AOPA petitioned the FAA to enforce AIP contracts. Airport is still open. Yes, eventually, the city of Santa Monica will close that airport, but not until AIP investments are amortized.

So, it sounds like 93Kilo may be an attorney? Sue em, sue em!

MTV

And doing the nothing AOPA has been doing is working great?

I’d wager with the recent EPA SCOTUS ruling, maybe there are grounds, also why not try to go after those who are trying to push this nonsense, when someone is trying to attack you, one can curl up in a ball and hope they lose interest, or one can go weapons free, I think going after these politicians and their funders and filing lawsuits is the way to go, the strives the 2A as gotten recently have been due to lawsuits, not compromise

I just told you what AOPA is doing, which is more than anyone else is doing, and which action is solely responsible for the Santa Monica Airport still being open today. I did my instrument training there in the late seventies and the city was trying VERY hard then to close the airport. That outcome was finally stopped by AOPA petitioning the FAA to enforce AIP contracts.

MTV

Are we really gonna go to a 4th page over a new (modern) fuel that might cost us .75 to a buck a gallon more?
Jeez o Pete... the price of car / truck fuel swings that much with regularity, and none of us throw are arms up and sell off the family beater... which by the way everyone here is running more fuel through than they are their airplanes...
Unless of course you work them. And if you do that, then you got to buy JetA at .99/gal at the start of the pandemonium and probably paid 4.80+/- this week... but probably didn't sell your fleet over it.
Shizzz.... mogas? Are you shitting me? These are tractor motors for chrisake... a few extra beverages this evening and you could probably piss in the tank and fly. There really isn't much rocket science involved in making your tractor motor mogas compatible. There's not even much rocket science involved in making it alcohol compatible. Even straight alcohol!

Nah man.... the sky is really not falling...

In the interest of full disclosure, I love avgas. I grew up running turbo sand rails, and you always had the sweet smell of it from the car front of you, and a bit of unspent fuel on your face. No third arm, and my kids seem to screw the pooch as much as any others... but if it falls off the face of the earth in 20 minutes, it's really not going to be the end of my flying days...

In fact in light of this thread, I almost hope it does... then I will be able to buy a second cub and 180 to leave up north (since no one will be able to figure out how to buy gas) and I will just smoker it up when I want to play...

Yee haw, giddy up and all that jazz....

Can we ditch the fuel wars and move on to matters of substance?

Take care Rob