Coyote Ugly wrote:I think give the guy a break.. He has a great company, builds great planes and is a great pilot. If your one the guys out there doing it a lot, you know that occasionally s#!t just happens - no matter how good you are, or how good your plane is.

Nobody is suggesting that their airplanes are bad. But, he won't be ANY kind of pilot very long if he repeats that kind of "airshow" act close to people and their houses/boats, etc. The FAA may well revoke or suspend his certificates over that little video taped airshow of his.

And, who put the gas in the plane? Who filtered the gas, and who sumped the tanks to verify they were clear of fuel?

Wrecking an airplane out in the woods because of pilot error is unfortunate, but as long as nobody gets hurt, its just dollars and embarrassment. I have been there....didn't get any shirts.

But, that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about what appears to be clear (with video evidence) violations of some pretty important regulations. And the public perception of pilots, as in all of us as a consequence of one person's totally pointless disregard for public safety and the regulations.

I'm glad nobody was hurt, and I hope that whoever was riding along on that deal doesn't lose his or her certificates as well. I also hope that they don't sue Just.....a very real possibility. More than one small company has gone down just because of lawsuits brought about by dumb stuff like this.

MTV

Zenithguy wrote:

The Just aircraft are pretty amazing toys,

Ouch……hmmm, how much does an aircraft have to weigh before it's a "real" aircraft? ….. my flying buddies that sold their Super Cubs and 180s and now put 200-300 hours a year on their backcountry sport planes are curious…...

I don't think anyone is belittling sport aircraft per se by calling them toys; but you have to admit that much of what we do with our airplanes, whether they be LSAs or certificated, is for fun--i.e., they're big boy toys. That's not an insult--after all, other things we enjoy, such as boats and motorcycles and some kinds of cars and Jeeps and stuff are also for recreation, i.e., toys.

In this case, calling any Just Aircraft airplane a toy isn't an insult, either. But the way they've been demo'ing them may very well put them into the archives as a "has been" toy--the kind of scrutiny they're likely to bring down upon themselves can be very damaging to any small company.

Cary

Did the crash and the so-called aerobatics even happen on the same flight, or day? Or is that a media invention?

The press release from Just Aircraft implies they are not the same flight.

I fly a Maule and I call it my toy.

You can tell the men from the boys by the price of there toys.

Cheers...Rob

Interesting landing technique. Lock the brakes and use the 29" ABW like skis. Never seen that before, but maybe a successful technique that we can add to the backcountry database. Don't know about pavement, but should be ok on wet grass. What brake calipers does the SuperSTOL use?

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2014/March/Pilot/1403p_stol#ooid=o5dDZrazr8m7KG00TPHVPV_tli6gLaOg

Battson wrote:Did the crash and the so-called aerobatics even happen on the same flight, or day? Or is that a media invention?

The press release from Just Aircraft implies they are not the same flight.

Dunno. The raw video is titled "moments before plane crashes near Lake Keowee," which does seem to be, potentially, at odds with the Just press release.

http://www.wyff4.com/news/moments-before-plane-crashes-near-lake-keowee/34519796

Definitely wouldn't be the first time the news got something wrong, or over-sensationalized. Pointless to speculate one way or another--the witness who shot the video will presumably tell investigators how long it was between the clip and the crash.

RanchPilot wrote:.....Definitely wouldn't be the first time the news got something wrong, or over-sensationalized. Pointless to speculate one way or another--the witness who shot the video will presumably tell investigators how long it was between the clip and the crash.

Wouldn't be the first time a pilot put some spin on his story either. How many guys do you know who have gear-up landed came right out and said "I forgot to out the gear down"? I know several gear-uppers, and exactly ONE has admitted hat he just forgot. Everyone else, it's "the gear collapsed" or whatever.
Q: what's the last thing a pilot does before getting out of the plane after landing gear up ?
A: put the gear handle down.

"Oh, nooooo, Mr. FAA guy....that wasn't one of US flying one of OUR airplanes on a demo ride......we'd never fly close to people with one of our airplanes.....that musta been another customer airplane doing all those high jinks."

What would you expect them to say?

MTV

Karmutzen wrote:Interesting landing technique. Lock the brakes and use the 29" ABW like skis. Never seen that before, but maybe a successful technique that we can add to the backcountry database. Don't know about pavement, but should be ok on wet grass. What brake calipers does the SuperSTOL use?

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2014/March/Pilot/1403p_stol#ooid=o5dDZrazr8m7KG00TPHVPV_tli6gLaOg

Works fine or riverbed rocks or gravel too... just keep the tail down with elevator.

mtv wrote:"Oh, nooooo, Mr. FAA guy....that wasn't one of US flying one of OUR airplanes on a demo ride......we'd never fly close to people with one of our airplanes.....that musta been another customer airplane doing all those high jinks."

What would you expect them to say?

MTV

My altimeter must have been out of calibration.
It looked about 500' to me.
It must have been clear air turbulence, it took all my skills to get out alive.
Shall I bring my own KY jelly, or will the FAA provide it?
If I say I sorry and promise not to do it ever again can we just forget it happened?

You guys with the big tires who use Patrick's stall down approach probably don't remember that the Ercoupe would do that too. Lots of Ercoupes got bent center sections that way. Little tires and not rugged gear. Power could be used, however, to bring them in slow and touch down on the numbers like a feather. Oh! Power can be used with stol aircraft to land slow, soft, and on the numbers. What's with all the bouncing?

mtv wrote:

Coyote Ugly wrote:I think give the guy a break.. He has a great company, builds great planes and is a great pilot. If your one the guys out there doing it a lot, you know that occasionally s#!t just happens - no matter how good you are, or how good your plane is.

Nobody is suggesting that their airplanes are bad. But, he won't be ANY kind of pilot very long if he repeats that kind of "airshow" act close to people and their houses/boats, etc. The FAA may well revoke or suspend his certificates over that little video taped airshow of his.

And, who put the gas in the plane? Who filtered the gas, and who sumped the tanks to verify they were clear of fuel?

Wrecking an airplane out in the woods because of pilot error is unfortunate, but as long as nobody gets hurt, its just dollars and embarrassment. I have been there....didn't get any shirts.

But, that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about what appears to be clear (with video evidence) violations of some pretty important regulations. And the public perception of pilots, as in all of us as a consequence of one person's totally pointless disregard for public safety and the regulations.

I'm glad nobody was hurt, and I hope that whoever was riding along on that deal doesn't lose his or her certificates as well. I also hope that they don't sue Just.....a very real possibility. More than one small company has gone down just because of lawsuits brought about by dumb stuff like this.

MTV

Sounds like he's tried, convicted and hung... Hmm... hope he wasnt innocent...

Coyote Ugly wrote:

mtv wrote:

Coyote Ugly wrote:I think give the guy a break.. He has a great company, builds great planes and is a great pilot. If your one the guys out there doing it a lot, you know that occasionally s#!t just happens - no matter how good you are, or how good your plane is.

Nobody is suggesting that their airplanes are bad. But, he won't be ANY kind of pilot very long if he repeats that kind of "airshow" act close to people and their houses/boats, etc. The FAA may well revoke or suspend his certificates over that little video taped airshow of his.

And, who put the gas in the plane? Who filtered the gas, and who sumped the tanks to verify they were clear of fuel?

Wrecking an airplane out in the woods because of pilot error is unfortunate, but as long as nobody gets hurt, its just dollars and embarrassment. I have been there....didn't get any shirts.

But, that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about what appears to be clear (with video evidence) violations of some pretty important regulations. And the public perception of pilots, as in all of us as a consequence of one person's totally pointless disregard for public safety and the regulations.

I'm glad nobody was hurt, and I hope that whoever was riding along on that deal doesn't lose his or her certificates as well. I also hope that they don't sue Just.....a very real possibility. More than one small company has gone down just because of lawsuits brought about by dumb stuff like this.

MTV

Sounds like he's tried, convicted and hung... Hmm... hope he wasnt innocent...

X2 What he said!
GT

In the video:
Looks to me that the plane had engine trouble, so he lost altitude. The engine came back, the plane built speed low to be sure to clear trees.

Anyway, glad everybody is ok, and the FAA only will tell us the truth.

Coyote Ugly wrote:

mtv wrote:

Coyote Ugly wrote:I think give the guy a break.. He has a great company, builds great planes and is a great pilot. If your one the guys out there doing it a lot, you know that occasionally s#!t just happens - no matter how good you are, or how good your plane is.

Nobody is suggesting that their airplanes are bad. But, he won't be ANY kind of pilot very long if he repeats that kind of "airshow" act close to people and their houses/boats, etc. The FAA may well revoke or suspend his certificates over that little video taped airshow of his.

And, who put the gas in the plane? Who filtered the gas, and who sumped the tanks to verify they were clear of fuel?

Wrecking an airplane out in the woods because of pilot error is unfortunate, but as long as nobody gets hurt, its just dollars and embarrassment. I have been there....didn't get any shirts.

But, that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about what appears to be clear (with video evidence) violations of some pretty important regulations. And the public perception of pilots, as in all of us as a consequence of one person's totally pointless disregard for public safety and the regulations.

I'm glad nobody was hurt, and I hope that whoever was riding along on that deal doesn't lose his or her certificates as well. I also hope that they don't sue Just.....a very real possibility. More than one small company has gone down just because of lawsuits brought about by dumb stuff like this.

MTV

Sounds like he's tried, convicted and hung... Hmm... hope he wasnt innocent...

I reckon the FAA will make that determination. But the problem is, based on that video, all pilots are being judged and convicted in the court of public opinion.

MTV

Zoom lense...sounds like you guys have already sorta convicted him. Zoom lense can do a lot. Who to say he is not:

Over Open Water or Sparsely Populated Areas: an altitude allowing for a linear distance greater than 500 feet from any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure;

Just my thought. Troy is a good pilot. Not to mention the toy comments, isn't that what we all have? Not too many here posting flying their planes as 135. 99% here are flying for fun.

Akt

I think the guy made a mistake even if no technical "laws" were broken. But, it was not enough of a mistake to bring in the Federal Government. Somebody please (who knows him personally) mention to him that there were people that complained. No big deal. End of saga.

8GCBC wrote:I think the guy made a mistake even if no technical "laws" were broken. But, it was not enough of a mistake to bring in the Federal Government. Somebody please (who knows him personally) mention to him that there were people that complained. No big deal. End of saga.

Ohhhhhh I think you will see this is not the "End of saga" I can not imagine the FAA passing on this.

I hope I am wrong.

Cheers

OregonMaule wrote:

8GCBC wrote:I think the guy made a mistake even if no technical "laws" were broken. But, it was not enough of a mistake to bring in the Federal Government. Somebody please (who knows him personally) mention to him that there were people that complained. No big deal. End of saga.

Ohhhhhh I think you will see this is not the "End of saga" I can not imagine the FAA passing on this.

I hope I am wrong.

Cheers

You are right about the Feds. Anyway, "Learn from others..." is the moral of the story (thread). Hope the guy walks and learned a lesson. That's the best outcome, from what I know (which is very little!)

Troy is a good pilot.

To a lot of pilots on this site backcountry and STOL flying has been the norm and a way of life that many of us have not been as fortunate to have been exposed to and have not been able to enjoy until recently. It's no secret that in the last few years STOL and backcountry flying has become the NASCAR and monster truck draw of the aviation world, as evidenced by Valdez, STOL exhibitions at Oshkosh, etc. To be at the fence at OSH and see the crowd treat the STOL guys like rock stars really hammered home how popular and enviable the type of flying we enjoy has become.

Troy and his aircraft have had quite an impact on that rise, being at OSH every year, performing, answering questions, posting videos, just sharing with ordinary pilots that you don't have to have teeny wheels and cruise at 200 kts to make flying enjoyable. I owe him that gratitude for exposing myself, friends, and pilots to what I enjoy in a favorable manner, and I wish him the best in the investigation.