Hello all,
My first post to any forum ever, so if I need to move it or do things differently let me know.

I am just beginning my journey of becoming a private pilot. I am looking for recommendations for, Part 61 CFI's in the Concord California area. I am willing to travel to airports a little further away to find a great instructor. Possibly Livermore KLVK, or Vacaville KVCB. I know there are many other airports in the area but at least this give a general location. I am hoping to learn in tailwheel aircraft. I have found 1 instructor that I like out in Livermore, they have tailwheel aircraft, but they're outfit is more geared towards aerobatics. I did go up in their Super Decathlon for a discovery flight and had a blast, they also have a Citabria. none of their aircraft have flaps, not a big issue, but I would like to learn with one that does.
There is one more outfit at Livermore I need to look into, that has a Champ and a Cessna 140, but haven't had a chance to get back out there yet.
I've always had interest in flying, and the possibilities of off airport operations and "low and slow" travel where you get to see everything, have sparked my interests, and started me back on the path to learn to fly.
Any recommendations and advise would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You

Learning to fly in a citabria variant with no flaps, small tires, spring gear, and on a paved runway will make you a better tailwheel pilot than if you were to learn in a cub with flaps on a grass strip. Adding flaps into the equation later won't be an issue whatsoever.

Personally I think you've found your instructor/school.

-asa

Welcome. Airplanes fly amazingly the same, by design.

There’s a Citabria you can get instruction in out at Sonoma Skypark.

[quote]Learning to fly in a citabria variant with no flaps, small tires, spring gear, and on a paved runway will make you a better tailwheel pilot than if you were to learn in a cub with flaps on a grass strip./quote]

asa,
Thank you this response answered other questions for me as well.

robw56,
I looked into Sonoma airpark and found, Carneros Aviation. From what I've found it appears they are no longer in business.
Thank you

contact flying,
Thank you.

[quote]Learning to fly in a citabria variant with no flaps, small tires, spring gear, and on a paved runway will make you a better tailwheel pilot than if you were to learn in a cub with flaps on a grass strip./quote]

I agree with that guy.

Also stay away from contact flying's ramblings, and other guys that think they know it all. Just go learn to fly, listen to guys with a lot of experience, and learn. In time hopefully you'll be able to discern who is or is not full of shit.

Also agree with asa.

As for contact...he may not always talk a language that is familiar...but he knows flying and if you can take the time to understand him you can learn a ton...

Got my PPL last July in a 172. Started My Tailwheel endorsement in August in a Citabria with no flaps, small tires, spring gear , and on pavement.
I now own a 56 Pacer and just getting ready to venture out to the Desert for some off airport opps.
Not sure I would learn in a tailwheel. You will have plenty of time to learn that after you learn the basics of flight in a 172 or Cherokee .
There is a reason most flight schools use those planes , they don't want high drop out rates from students who give up in frustration.
Make it easy on yourself.
Once you have a PPL the tailwheel wont take you very long

Good Luck

Troy Hamon wrote:Also agree with asa.

As for contact...he may not always talk a language that is familiar...but he knows flying and if you can take the time to understand him you can learn a ton...

Amen. Contact knows his stuff. Hard to understand at times, but definitely not full of BS.

Thank you all for your input.
I have been working my way through the "Sporty's Learn to Fly App." Trying to absorb a lot of the book knowledge, and get a basic understanding of how everything goes together. It has been very informative. I have also gone back and watched the GoPro footage from my intro flight, equally as informative, now that I have a bit more knowledge. Still so much to learn, as always in life.

I have decided to continue with learning to fly, in a tailwheel airplane. As, most of the research I have done, indicates that it does help in creating a better pilot and one that is more in touch with the airplane and what it's doing.

Sierra Splitter, the biggest reason I want to learn in a tailwheel, is that is the type of plane I wish to own and fly in. It makes sense to me, at least, to educate myself in equipment similar to that which I intend to use.
I will admit, with the difficulty of finding tailwheel aircraft to rent and Instructors to go along with them. I did look into learning at the local flight school, full of 172's. It's just not what I want. So I will just have to drive a bit further, not a big deal.

So, here is where everything is at least for now. Hopefully this info will be able to help others in my area that have similar interests.

I have found two places at KLVK (Livermore).

XL Aviation http://www.xlaviationtailwheel.com This where I took my intro flight. They have a Citabria, a Super Decathlon, a Pitts and 2 Extras, and many instructors. I met the owner and he was very nice and very helpful in getting things scheduled. The instructor for my intro flight was Alan Crabill, also very helpful and nice. The only downsides here are the costs, with the 2 planes I am interested in: being $165-180 an hour HOBBS time, and the Instructors starting at $80 an hour and up. This would make for an expensive endeavor.

The second place I found is: Red Sky Aviation. http://www.redskyaviation.com They have an: Aeronca Champ, a Cessna 140, and an Extra as far as tailwheels go. I spoke with them briefly, before scheduling my intro flight at XL Aviation, they where also nice and helpful. We just weren't able to schedule anything that fit my crazy schedule at that time. Their prices are much more affordable though, with the Cessna and the Aeronca both advertised at $91 an hour and flight instruction advertised at $52 an hour. I will be getting back in touch with them.

The information you guys gave me previously eventually lead me to find two tailwheel CFI's at concord KCCR however neither of them have access to tailwheel planes I could rent, I would have to get my own plane to use there.

Well that's it for the update for now. I'm still moving forward. Life should slow down enough to allow me up in the air regularly starting in November. I hope to make it up at least a couple times before then, we'll see.

BTW Contactflying's statement made plenty of sense to me, as well I appreciate the warm welcome. Once airborne the principles are all the same, just slight differences such as stick vs yoke. Again Thank you all.

You are lucky to be in an area where tailwheel airplanes and instructors are available. If your instructor will go along with what I teach in SMFT, click my signature box below, that is good for pilot and airplane. Good luck.

-0-

Contact,
Thank you. I will continue reading and researching. What I have read so far, well, just makes perfect sense to me.

Dogpilot, I appreciate your advice and input. You make some very valid points that I will have too consider.
Yes, as much as I would like to save money, speed through a corse, and make things easy for myself. Making things easy doesn't necessarily make them better, and sometimes you get what you pay for. I don't see much downside to getting more instruction from someone who knows more than myself on any topic.

That is one of the big reasons I joined this forum and reached out for advise, was to get information from those more knowledgeable than myself.

As for the statistics regarding tailwheel and training related damage, that is completely believable and even understandable, given just the ground operating characteristics of tailwheel planes. Unfortunately, another reason I would like to learn in one.

Imagine 40-60 hours of experience with someone there to back you up, tell you what to look out for and debrief potentially hazardous actions before they become learned, vs. 5-10 hours of transition training on top of 40-50 hours in a 172.

As far as the examiner, now that is a very legitimate point I had not even considered, and I will be looking in to that now. Thank You.

My goals beyond just becoming a certificated pilot: is to become the most proficient pilot I can. As I subscribe to the notion that "in life you never stop learning and if you do it's because your no longer living."

I am doing this as a hobby for now, just following a dream, I have had as long as I can remember. After obtaining a certificate, I plan to continue educating myself. Pursuing: Instrument, and commercial ratings, As much as I enjoy my job now, and it provides everything I need and more, it certainly isn't my dream. Time will tell where things go.

As for your story. That is extremely unfortunate. I guess I can only hope that I exercise my best decision making skills when faced with flying into a storm.

I second Dogpilot's comments (except I thought Bat 21 was a good movie, and an even better book).
Get your license the quickest, easiest way you can, then go on to learn to fly (and buy?) the kind of the airplane you want.
Make no mistake, the lowly C150 or 172 can teach you how to fly.
You may even discover that the airplane you think you want now, as a zero-timer,
turns out to not be the airplane you want after you have 50 or 100 hours of flight time under your belt.

Doing something harder doesn’t mean that you’re doing it better.

Just get on with your PPL, get your TW endorsement, and then figure out what airplane you really want that fits your mission. Hire an instructor and log another 150 hours of dual after buying your plane if it makes you feel better, but don’t make the actual PPL process and longer or more expensive than it already is.

What Sierrasplitter, Dogpilot, Hotrod 180, and CamTom12 are saying about prices and time to train are realistic nowdays, and it really irritates me. I understand supply and demand makes tailwheel a risky trainer. I don't understand the time to train when my tailwheel guys soloed in fewer than ten hours. It doesn't take longer to train in tailwheel, it just takes more economic courage.

Using power/pitch to slow down as much as possible on short final takes away most rational economic fear. With a twenty something thousand dollar 65 HP airplane, we only have to stay close to the rudders the first fifty feet or so.

Riding the rudders, on the other hand, prevents the student from learning quickly and with great confidence.

There is just nothing else that compares to the high training value of an old, ugly, 65 HP, tailwheel trainer.

Cantom, you are right doing something harder doesn't make it better, as well easier may not either. I am hoping to do things the best way regardless of difficulty. And if I get my license and then do 150hours more latter I will have spent significantly more.

Hotrod, First Iv'e never seen Bat21 so I can't speak to that. Dogpilot made good points that I am now looking at, and I appreciate it.

Contact, I think I understand what they're saying as well. More or less "just get in the air and get going" also with the prices from the one place, at 245 an hour with instructor, what they say makes really good sense. being able to go up in the Champ or the 140 for 143. an hour including the instructor is very comparable to most of the other places in my area doing training.

My past experiences:
Sail plane flying in Arizona with my grandfather as a young man at Arizona soaring just outside of casa grande. just a couple hours there.
C172 out of san Carlos ca (KSQL) with a friend years back that owned one there, again just a few hours there.
C182rg also out of SQL with the same friend when he upgraded, again only a few hours there too. And unfortunately I hadn't been back up since he moved to Vegas 7-8 years ago, until going up in the super decathlon in may.

So, I am not looking for the fastest way to get a license as I can't commit much time to it until November. And I am certainly not off to the airlines. I normally work 60-70 hours a week, my wife went back to school and will be done with the major part of it in November and starting to work more. I have interest in tailwheel, yes, because I like the potential for being able to go into small unimproved strips, obviously with plenty of training/instruction on how to do it safely. I am hoping to get some acreage within the next few years. I am not opposed to tri-gear planes. but I guess what the real question here is.

Does learning in a tail wheel aircraft indoctrinate better rudder usage habits than learning in a nose wheel plane?

Does learning in a tail wheel aircraft force you to pay more attention and be more in tune with the plane all the way to a stop when landing?

Yes it may be harder, but does it come with benefit? if it can be done for reasonably the same price, why not?

Also Little wheel in front or back, a lower power plane would provide better learning of power usage while flying, yes?

I've done many things with motors/ motorsports and lots of power can get you out of a jamb really quickly. but when you don't have power you need skills to get out of the same jamb. years back doing motocross "when in doubt, gas it" got me out of plenty, at least with the big bikes, doing that with the smaller bike, not always the case. I can only assume that similar principle apply to flying. And skills learned will be more helpful when learned before they are needed.

So I guess what are you opinions on learning in a 7AC champ with an A-65, or a C140 with a C-85?
they are both tailwheel (I know I'm still stuck on it, sorry) they are both low power machines. will these be good machines to teach me good fundamentals rudder management and usage, power management, as there is not much if any extra to power out of a jamb.

thank you guys all for reading my rants and listening, look forward to getting some more info.

Pilot 2020,

The 7AD and the C-140 are both great trainers that force dynamic proactive rudder movement and energy management. At high DA the engine is not the better energy source on summer afternoons. As a glider pilot you already know this. That said, a good instructor can make you wiggle the tail on taxi, takeoff, final, touchdown, and roll out in a nosewheel airplane. He can make you takeoff in low ground effect and down drainage in light tailwind and seek good air even in more powerful airplanes. It is the better technique whatever you fly. If he shies away from low powered aircraft that would be troubling.