I am planning to build a supercub style kit plane for back country style flying. I am looking for feedback on how good the construction documentation is in 2014 for supercub style airplane kits, regular or quick build.

I'm considering several manufacturers, and will wait until after OSHKOSH before deciding. I'm a first time builder, so ease of understanding of the construction manual is going to be very important. I have been pouring over the threads over on supercubs.org and some of those characters could scratch build a cub blindfolded and with one hand tied behind their back. That's so not me. I struggle to pop open a can of Bud Lite. Anyway...............

I keep weaving back and forth between planes like the 4 place Bearhawk, 4 place Backcountry SuperCubs SQ4 "Boss", Zenith 801 or 750 Cruzer, and the RANS S20. Plus a few others Yeah I know..define your mission, and rent for the remaining 10%, but at this point even my mission is an evolving affair.

Anyway. It is 2014 and I know a lot of the construction manuals and DVDs have gotten a lot better. I was wondering if folks here could share their thoughts on the construction documentation for different supercub style plane kits. I have heard for example that Van's Aircraft docs are fabulous, but I don't think they make a high wing Supercub style model... (yet) ..

You won't find any better documentation than Kitfox.

Interesting topic, and one that is not commonly brought up. Having written consumer product instruction manuals professionally for a while (R/C airplane models),and having done a few full-size aviation-related instruction manuals, I can say that the quality of written instructions varies wildly.

Smaller or less experienced manufacturers have trouble understanding the idea that the instructions are the majority of (or the only) communications they will ever have with their customers. The instructions (on a consumer product) have as much of an effect on the customer's overall experience with the brand/product as the quality of the product itself. Good instructions can make an average product into a good product.

But a large portion of product manufacturers don't want to spend the money to have it done well. I've walked around the large R/C model trade show here in LA trying to explain the value of better instructions, until I was blue in the face. Another large chunk doesn't think that the instructions are as important as other parts. Some others think they can write the instructions but can't do it well. Yet another group knows their product so well that they think that the instructions can be brief and vague, because it's obvious (to them).

Aviation is a little better off than consumer products, and instructions for certified aircraft products have to be approved by a documentation specialist at the FAA. But experimental kit airplanes is the one area, even within aviation, where you run into the same issues and wild variations in quality as with R/C models. I approached one or two manufacturers over the years, offering to write their assembly manuals with them or for them. But the cost of having a professional writer do it was too high for one company,and the other manufacturer apparently didn't think too highly of anyone from a city instead of a farm.

The Zenair airplanes have pretty decent manuals; more importantly there is a company that sells how-to-build-it videos on the Zenair airplanes that seem to be pretty thorough.The Rutan homebuilt airplanes had excellent manuals, but you're not looking for a plastic canard. The instruction manual I saw for the "Legal Eagle" ultralight was just awful. Shameful. I hope they have changed it since I saw it in 1995. One suggestion you might keep in mind is that you should be able to go through the manual for any kit airplane before you buy it. Any company with a really good and thorough manual will be proud to have you read it first, because it will help them sell an airplane kit. Anyone who will not let you read the manual before buying the kit may be hiding what they know is a bad manual.

For whatever it's worth, I commend you for having the presence of mind to look at the instructions as being a primary consideration in your decision.

The quality of the instructions is more important for an aluminum plane than for tube and fabric construction. Aluminum planes have thousands of little unrecognizable parts and different kinds of fasteners. I spent days building sub-assemblies for my RV without knowing how the part would fit into the aircraft. Tube and fabric kits will most likely come with a complete fuselage and have a lot fewer parts and fasteners. Most of the parts are recognizable when they come out of the shipping crate.

Just as important as the manual is the builders forum on the internet. Search the builders forums for the AC you're interested in and you should get a feel for how the kit goes together for the builders. Search for "build manual" and "instructions" and you'll get plenty of opinions.

This comment is based on my observations from building my 801 12 years ago.... And LONG before a "quick build, prepunched kit" existed... I had to drill ALL 14,210 rivet holes..

The 801 manuals started out pretty complete and detailed, By the 5th - 6th section and the second binder, Zenith either started to get lazy or assumed the builder had picked up sufficient skills and didn't need to be spoon fed small details.. Back then a group of 3-5 builders would chat daily on the net and that made building ALOT easier.. But.. I / we did find mistakes and Zenith was contacted. They almost always posted a correction on their website within a day or so...

I would give Zenith Aircraft a 9 out of a 10 for their manual quality.... Now that they have sent all the 801 stuff to Canada , I have NO idea on the quality of anything.. IMHO..

Rans. Good manual. Good detailed drawings that must have cost a fortune to produce.

There will be bugs in any manual and things that confuse the builder. Which ever manufacturer you go with, try to make sure someone's going to be around to pick up the phone when you have questions. Also, the parts and spares portion of the equation is huge...but that wasn't your question.

The manual for my Challenger was pretty bad. There were a lot of gaps in the information. However, the people at Quad City were very helpful and some of the dealers have put together some pretty extensive on-line resources.

And the build manuals Eric sells for the Bearhawk are excellent. With lots of good photos and step by step instructions. And as you've discovered, Bob Barrows and Mark Goldberg are always ready to help answer questions.

And of course, a copy of the FAA's AC43.13 Aircraft construction and Repair manual is a great resource for any builder. I think a lot of the plans and kit manufacturers assume the builder will be familiar with standard aircraft practices, and they're all detailed in AC43.13.

Phil

I was on the CubCrafters website and they have some examples of their kit manuals available for download:

http://www.cubcrafters.com/kits/manual

I have never built anything but the quality of this documentation would give me confidence to buy. I am not interested in a tandem personally, but I hope whatever I buy will have great docs like this. So far I have ordered several Build CDs from Sonex, Rans (S6/7; S20 not available), and Bearhawk just to get an idea.

I don't know who writes Cubcrafters' manuals, but they did a great job IMHO.

Also FWIW, the website by Dan Johnson reported today ( March 13, 2014) that CC sold 63 aircraft last year, and in addition that their kit sales total in 2013 for Carbon Cub EX was up 50% compared to 2012.

http://www.bydanjohnson.com/

I guess that company is doing a lot of things right, not just their builder manuals & documentation.

gbflyer wrote:Rans. Good manual. Good detailed drawings that must have cost a fortune to produce.

There will be bugs in any manual and things that confuse the builder. Which ever manufacturer you go with, try to make sure someone's going to be around to pick up the phone when you have questions. Also, the parts and spares portion of the equation is huge...but that wasn't your question.

I'll second that, RANS is damn good, the best I've worked with in 5 planes, 4 kitplanes anyway, but there will still be times in any build when you'll be cursing the writers of the manual! But, a few steps later, you realize what they meant and also that they explained it correctly, you were just a dummy. A solid company is equally important, you do not want to get a "this number is no longer is service" recording ever! Anyone remember the Pro-Tech PT2? I bought one, and drove to Houston to pick up the kit, what they had ready anyway. After 6 months of excuses I started to smell a skunk and was luckily able to bail out with only losing a couple thousand bucks.

I built an RV-4 and the S-6ES that I have now. The RV-4 tail section of the manual was very detailed and complete. The wings a little less so, the fuselage, much less so. Van does in fact assume that by the time you've built the tail and the wings you pretty much know what you're doing. I really didn't and needed more hand holding. If it weren't for VansAirforce and Rivetbangers, I never would have finished the RV.

The Rans build manual was great. Exploded parts diagrams for everything! And the instructions were fairly detailed. The only thing I didn't like about the Rans manual is that they did not present you with a build sequence. I called them and they gave me the basic sequence but that would have been a nice part of the manual.

At Oshkosh be sure to check out the Highlander, too. The build manual is OK, factory phone support is very good and the builders forum is very good. I built and fly the regular Highlander, it's a fun plane. the new Super STOL model is a little heavier and more money; it'll land on a dime and give you nine cents change. Besides all the STOL tricks, they have a roomy cockpit and baggage area for an LSA.