Guys/Gals,

I posted this in the Maule site and thought I would tap into the backcountry knowledge base as well.

Looking for some advice as far as landing in snow with 8.5 on a MX7-180B. At what point is the snow too deep for tires.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Landed in almost wheel deep(850s)snow, snow was Real nice Super cold no crust,,,,super sweet buttery on touchdown.no worries.....went back another time , crusty ,shity snow, hollow underneath,ect ...got stuck trying to turn around.. could have been worse, lucky on that one....that should help

A few inches of snow on a runway I know... No biggie, just figure some extra take-off distance.

Unknown runway surface or snow depth... Bigger balls than I fly with.

Gump

Snow conditions are everything. Light fluffy powder can be pretty deep and cause no problem but a few inches of wet heavy stuff or a frozen crusty layer can cause some problems.

A few inches of wet sticky s*** will make your a** pucker nice and tight (especially if it's patchy).

Been there, done that with 8.50s. Ordering bushwheels as soon as I can afford them.

I've heard, but haven't practiced myself, that when on wheels and landing in snow, to go full throttle and stick back to help keep tail down and prevent nosing over. Makes sense if drag on the wheels is high. Comments?

Last year, I used every single one of my 180 hp's to keep the tail from going over landing in deeper and crustier snow then I thought. Be real careful.

With my 26" Airstreaks taking off from a runway with three or four inches of snow of any kind is a breeze, and returning is just as easy, Until somebody develops a technique to let me quantify snow depth from 500' in the air, there is NO way I'm going to land. I've landed in multiple snowmobile tracks on a lake that I thought would be hard as rock; they were good but inconsistent and I did a touch and go to avoid a bad surprise. So unless somebody has already done it and told me EXACTLY where to stick it down, I'll pass.

It's about 3" and very wet now as we are getting freezing rain today and it's about 34 degrees' I think I will wait a little longer. This weather has been hard on a pilot.

When the snow gets deep just get a bigger plane.

bumper wrote:I've heard, but haven't practiced myself, that when on wheels and landing in snow, to go full throttle and stick back to help keep tail down and prevent nosing over. Makes sense if drag on the wheels is high. Comments?

I landed on snow once...never again until I buy skis. Touched down went full throttle and held the stick back...stopped in a couple hundred feet. Took 3/4 throttle to taxi and almost had to spend the night. Very stupid move on my part.

Hello,
Snow conditions can really vary. Its not worth it to flip a perfectly good Maule resulting in big $$$$, a bent prop, a required engine teardown, crank replacement, structural damage, increased insurance cost, and a 44709 re-examination from the local FAA too.

I do agree if you have to land in deep snow keep your nose up and power in. Good luck out there. My two cents.

James
Spokane
One option:
A better option:
A bad option:
Snow landing gone wrong November 2010

Hard packed snow looks like it works well. A nose wheel will keep you from flipping (I guess). James hit the nail with the skeeeeezzzzz. Just need mo money.

Have had a couple pilots I know do nose-overs in the snow around Puget Sound operating on wheels -- a clipwing Cub at Darrington a couple years ago, & a Husky at Bandera last november. The snow was a lot deeper and/or wetter than anticipated in both cases. "If you don't know, don't go" might be words to live by.

In a word: RISKY

Make sure your insurance is paid up...

MTV

I have 8.50s. My general rule of thumb is axle depth. But it is only a rule of thumb. In a cold January snow which is very light and "dry" I've taken off in more than 12 inches of new stuff. I'd be darn nervous in wet stuff of more than three inches. And in spring breakup or with a packed runway I walk the entire strip looking for mushy holes in the hard pack/ice.

I don't land on any snow I haven't either taken off from, or walked (or walked by someone I trust.)

I've been threatening to buy skis for the last five winters but my home strip here has never really experienced conditions that demanded them for more than a day or two. Until this year. I'm marooned for the time being until we can get a good solid cold packing.

If you are on the ground and can walk in the snow no brainer. I taxied and took off in 4" of nice light power, made the runway feel smoother.

If I am in the air I won't try to land unless I am 99.999% sure the type of white surface won't wreck me. I will leave it for the guys with skies.

All it takes is a little to deep or a little to crusty and over you go. We have a couple of members here who will attest to that. They had 31s too. I remember a Maule in Alaska that did the endo on 31s like hum 2-3 years ago.

Cheers...Rob

TomKatz wrote:Hard packed snow looks like it works well. A nose wheel will keep you from flipping (I guess). James hit the nail with the skeeeeezzzzz. Just need mo money.

The cute lil wheel in the front just delays the inevitable by a few seconds and really helps to wipe out the firewall and belly when she folds under. Like others have said, cold, dry light fluffy stuff and you can handle more than you would think, but only a couple degrees difference in temp and you will find yourself hanging by the shoulder harness. One flight in a 152 I tried to get off a 3500' runway with 4" of fluff on it and I had to abort TWICE and make a few tracks to get enough speed to get out off. I have the short soft field technique down pretty good and it was just a big ole no go.

I took a lesson last year in a J-3 doing exactly this. One of the coolest things I've done in a plane! We landed in a tail slightly low, wheel landing setup. Keep power in to really slow the rate of decent. If it starts to feel like mashed potatos, get the hell out of there. Keep your speed up on taxiing. Beware not to overheat the engine on taxi! You'll be going nowhere and need a lot more power to move, so keep the momentum up. There's no airflow through the engine. When turning use bursts of power to lighten the tail and swing it around. (hope some of this stuff helps).

I think you are in Maryland. Maybe consider flying up to Andover, NJ and taking a wheel snow lesson from Damien. That's where I took the J-3 lesson. He's just a great down to earth teacher with a lot of various taildragger and backcountry knowledge. I know I've plugged him a few times, but I promise I don't work for him!

Also, the snow there was a good 4 inches or so deep, with little cub tires. Never felt dangerous. In fact, the landings where incredibly smooth.