What is a better techinque coming high and at an angle or flat and reduce power while passing the onstacles?

What other tips techniques are there?
Went practicing today and Im not convinced Im doing it right.

There are many here with more time in the seat than me but I have more landings over power lines, trees and such to either dirt roads or short grass strips than a lot of guys I know with twice the hours. That makes me semi-qualified to say this.

If you come in steeper you have the advantage of a shorter touchdown point past the obstacle allowing you to nearly go past the obstacle you are clearing without dragging in over it at a flat angle with power or speed and not much margin above it. This leaves more strip ahead of you left for landing or go around and more height is also better in a power outage on final.

Airliners prefer the other method.

You could get specific pointers from some 182 guys here that could peg the technique for you.

You can try slipping it with 20 degrees of flaps all the way down to about 10 or 20 feet off the ground and then go full flaps as you come out of the slip and flare all at the same time. This is a lot easier with a johnson bar, I don't know if it would work well with electric flaps though.

I very much prefer the steep approach all the way. If you come over the obstacle at a relatively shallow angle and then attempt to steepen it, there's a huge tendency to let the airspeed increase, resulting in touching down farther down the strip. If you set up with the steep angle well in advance, you're more stabilized, and it's easier to maintain the airspeed and descent angle.

Cary

Today I was training at this strip and pretending the trees were over the whole threshold.

Sorry videos are a bit long




The strip I want to go is this one below
This is the only guy who uses it in the whole country and no ther pilot will go there, there have been 25 wrecks in this field.
I really dont like the approach this guy does.
the usable part of the strip is 900ft, most of the time wet grass , bumpy and a bit downhill.

I have just 3 recommendations: airspeed, airspeed, and airspeed. Practice flat trajectory and steep approaches at very slow approach speeds at a no obsticle airport. As you will see there is much greater room for error on the steep approach as you can always push forward on the stick if you get too slow. As you approach stall in a flat trajectory it requires combined application of power and forward pressure which is alittle more difficult all while the trees are at your feet. One thing that is hard to appreciate is that if you want to steepen the approach pull back on the stick but not so much the approach is straight down. On your first attempt at this strip wait for a good onshore breeze to help you. Steve

Coyote wrote:.... As you will see there is much greater room for error on the steep approach as you can always push forward on the stick if you get too slow. As you approach stall in a flat trajectory it requires combined application of power and forward pressure which is alittle more difficult all while the trees are at your feet. One thing that is hard to appreciate is that if you want to steepen the approach pull back on the stick ........

I agree. Counter-intuitive to pull back on the stick to descent but it works. Also agree on more rrom for error. The nose-high attitude can make for poor visibility, esp if you're worried about deer or whatever running out in front of you. (some of them seem suicidal)

hotrod150 wrote:

Coyote wrote:.... As you will see there is much greater room for error on the steep approach as you can always push forward on the stick if you get too slow. As you approach stall in a flat trajectory it requires combined application of power and forward pressure which is alittle more difficult all while the trees are at your feet. One thing that is hard to appreciate is that if you want to steepen the approach pull back on the stick ........

I agree. Counter-intuitive to pull back on the stick to descent but it works. Also agree on more rrom for error. The nose-high attitude can make for poor visibility, esp if you're worried about deer or whatever running out in front of you. (some of them seem suicidal)

I like to think of it as "dialing in a sink." You can haul that stick back and slow down and feel the descent rate pick up.

An instructor once made me hold onto the fuselage gusset tubes in a Super D, while he held full after stick. Power off, he had me steer it and keep the wings level with rudder only. Great exercise (at altitude.)

What works for me and is taught in many circles is maintain an angle of attack, or your target airspeed. You adjust your sink with power. It means a a bunch of small corrections for every adjustment in sink rate. Add power to slow decent, adjust rudder and AOA to maintain all the same, reduce power opposite drill. There is a point of diminishing returns on the angle of decent, as the sink rate becomes high enough that you cannot overcome it to do a power flare, adding power to cushion the landing. Miscalculations can result in embarrassing damage to your aircraft and spinal compression (ow).

This technique works really well with aircraft with gobs of power that comes on quick. On light aircraft with small motors, not so well. Climb ability is excess horsepower to maintain level flight. Lots of smaller aircraft have just enough power to climb in a gentle manner. So if your aircraft has the ability to climb at a given altitude of lets say 750 fpm, then if your decent for a steep approach is 750 fpm, max power will only zero it out, but not instantly. You will smack it in hard unless you do it at the magic point above ground.

I learned to do my approaches at Lift over Drag max point so you where in your best climb attitude when you added power you climbed at the best rate. On aircraft with poorer response, we hung out drag, like a speed brake, so the engine stayed spooled up and you rather leaped up when you pulled the board(s) in (which happens quickly). I like aircraft with Johnson bars, the flaps can act as speed brakes and an alternate flight control. Get over your point and lower yourself with the flaps. Only works for the last few feet.

Some folks like a cut approach, which is approach over the trees and cut power and flare, pray it works out. Sometimes it doesn't:

I had a friend who worked with me in Alaska. He wanted to go where no other pilots went. He is dead. You need more experience.... as in many many years. Best of luck curbing your desire to push your knowledge over the limit.

I agree about getting more experience but to a certain point.
And I appreciate your comment.
I think there are 10,000hrs pilots that cannot make this field, where there are 1,000hrs or less pilots that can make it.
If you dont train for it ,you can fly many years and thousands of hrs hrs and never get the proficency and experience to be able to make it.

I will only go if Im sure I can make it, I like challenges but Im not crazy.
If a loaded 206 operates this field every day in any conditions, without problems, then is a matter of training to be able to make it.
If it was a place only a Crabon Cub could make it and I wanna try it in my 182 then would be crazy.

More training, I cannot go any slower than this.

Coyote wrote:I have just 3 recommendations: airspeed, airspeed, and airspeed. Practice flat trajectory and steep approaches at very slow approach speeds at a no obsticle airport. As you will see there is much greater room for error on the steep approach as you can always push forward on the stick if you get too slow. As you approach stall in a flat trajectory it requires combined application of power and forward pressure which is alittle more difficult all while the trees are at your feet. One thing that is hard to appreciate is that if you want to steepen the approach pull back on the stick but not so much the approach is straight down. On your first attempt at this strip wait for a good onshore breeze to help you. Steve

I substitute the word "energy" for your use of airspeed, but the theory is the same. I always approach a landing as an energy management exercise. You get your energy from either altitude or speed. A steep approach give you the luxury of the following, IMHO. 1.) Visibility of the touchdown point all the way down. 2.) Precise speed control. 3.) Plenty of reserve energy should the engine pack up. Steep is the way to go in my book