I've always wondered if a guy could prop the tail up on a stand about 2' tall, then tie it down to kill some AOA to keep it from flying. Also I'd seen in "Sport pilot" or somewhere that someone's selling removable lift spoilers.

wirsig wrote: Also I'd seen in "Sport pilot" or somewhere that someone's selling removable lift spoilers.

Problem with the lift spoilers, or any kind of wing covers in high winds, is that sooner or later they're gonna work loose and start moving. Then the straps act like cable saws and start chewing through the wing. I've seen wings cut clear back to the spar with the nylon straps.

Gump

Gump's right. Those things work fine, but you'd better have them secured very well, AND baby sit them throughout a wind event.

Frankly, I'm just baffled at the number of people who will have a $100 K sitting out at the airport, and never even go out to see if the tiedowns are tight during a big wind. Or people tying their airplane down with crappy OLD Walmart rope that's been laying out in the sun on the airport ramp for years....or....

When we finally built a hangar for our planes in Kodiak, I was so delighted that I'd only have to tend MY personal airplane all night the next big blow. What a treat!! I can't count the number of times I spent much of the night baby sitting airplanes, and I rarely saw another soul out there.

Maybe I'm just not the brightest bulb in the fixture....or didn't have as good insurance.

As to propping up the tail--It can work, BUT....

1) You've got to LIFT that tail to get it on the support--Bring strong backs to help
2) You have to REALLY securely tie the tail down so it CANNOT move. If it bounces around and comes off that prop, the prop will most likely destroy the horizontal tail.
3) Which means you need to baby sit the airplane any time the wind's blowing hard.

Granted, these kinds of winds don't happen often in most parts of the world, but they can, with thunderstorms, etc.

Get VERY good tiedown rope--I use climbing ropes. Learn how to tie a good knot.....DO NOT use chain tiedowns--they can destroy a plane as well.

And, most of all DON'T EVER EVER use cable tiedowns. And don't tie your plane down downwind of cable tiedowns either.

MTV

I flew sailplanes for a few years and it is standard practice to prop the tails up on custom made carpeted wooden saddles creating a level to negative angle of attack, with the spoilers open. Consider the fact that they will fly MUCH sooner than an airplane. You literally hang onto the ropes from the wing tiedowns in order to tighten the ropes. The tail is tied with 2 ropes angled out at 45 degree angles, through the cradle and forcing the tail into the cradle not allowing the cradle to move. Talk to some of the sailplane guys who have made it through horrendous afternoon desert winds or storms.

I will tell you this, from my scary experience, a taildragger sitting at its normal positive angle will want to fly and exert much greater force on the ropes than if you get that tail up to a 0 or neg. angle. Logical. It becomes ALOT more stable, of course. It still can be a problem if the wind does a 180, and blows up the tail, but that is where good external control locks come in.

The other problem is the bouncing and jostling of the plane on the tires, working on loosening the knots and constantly yanking on the tiedowns. If you let the air out of the tires, you gain quite a bit of stability. The larger the tires the more unstable until you let out the air. You brought a pump right?:wink:

If this ever happens to me again (God I hope not, bad experiences teach alot) I will be quicker to implement what I can of these items.

Splash,

If the wind does a 180 and blows up the tail, and you can't get it turned around, you are very likely to lose the airplane. Gust locks in a serious wind don't help. The problem is the wind pushing down on those big wings. Once the struts start to go....you're hosed.

MTV

MTV,

Even if the plane is level? I agree if its sitting on its tail, the damage will be quick. But I have seen planes survive pretty good winds up the pipe with 2 external gust locks on the horizontal and one on the rudder, plus 2 on each aileron made of PVC with the tail level. All controls neutral. The surfaces are not designed for it, but in 60mph they survived. I guess it all depends on the plane and the velocity.

But I agree with you, you are just delaying the inevitable aircraft loss with strong wind up the tail. If it switches mid-storm,,, well thats what insurance is for, unless you have that "not covered for acts of mother nature" clause.

If I knew how I could post some photos from the early 70's at O'mally strip after a chinook wind storm destroyed almost all the planes ( about 100 ). Stayed up with my cub all night and had a buckled strut and minor wing damage. Used 2x4's on the struts and my truck as a shield. What a joy owning a plane

Yep, weren't those grand nights out there in the wind, rain, snow, etc, etc....?

MTV

Wow, I am constantly learning so much from you guys. Most of which I hope to never need.

mtv wrote:Yep, weren't those grand nights out there in the wind, rain, snow, etc, etc....?

MTV

I am going straight to the airport and give my hangar a big hug,,, and it gets a pat on the gable end to boot , <GG>

Stol, Do you remember "I can huff and puff, and blow your hangar down?"





Allen County airport, Lima, Ohio 2-3 years ago. jg

Aw, Man.... There goes the warm fuzzy feeling, <G>

I can see Joe now in his scivies hanging on to a rope hooked to his hangar.

tim

Checked my cub out really good today, it came through just beautiful....

I sure appreciate all of the good wishes, and words of wisdom....

And, it was beautiful flying today, not a breath of wind even on top the mts.

Shit, life is great huh???

I've heard of planes flying around with a bucket of cement tied to the tail, but this is the first one I've seen flying with 180# of crap tied to one wing. Pretty luckie old boy!!

Well, it's almost a year later from the big blow, and there's another fiddle contest and Death Valley Days event coming up on November 13th. Guess I'll go try it again, ha ha. It's kinda fun to watch the fiddlers and pickers, and some pretty good food if anyone is interested.

http://www.deathvalley49ers.org/encampment_events.htm

Coyote
So you bringing that good looking woman & hot tub and dancin?

Coyote Ugly wrote:Well, it's almost a year later from the big blow

That would be two years, you senile old coot!

kevbert wrote:

Coyote Ugly wrote:Well, it's almost a year later from the big blow

That would be two years, you senile old coot!

Senile old coots of the world UNITE! Down with young whippersnappers like kevbert!

bumper (65 year old coot)

Along the lines of spoilers:
My dad flew B25s in WW2, during several tropical storms they would take 2x4's and lash them to the top of the wings. Along with normal tie-downs they never had one even budge.