As most of you know I'm in the process of getting my experimental going. This thing has not been annualed or registered since 1993. It has changed hands half a dozen times since then. It's taken me a year to get the bill of sale trail complete for the registration but that's another story.

According the FAA the aircraft was never issued a permanent airthworthiness certificate. What that means to them is I have to basically start over from scratch, get issued another certificate and set of operating limitations, and fly off another 40 hour test period. Here's another twist.. the original aircraft logs were lost somewhere along the shuffle. I was able to get in contact with the original builder and he said that the 40 hour fly off was documented in the aircraft logs.

Since I do not have those the original builder was gracious enough to supply me with copies of his pilots log book that show all the testing and hours flown on the aircraft. The airplane had 110 hours logged on it which was way more than the 40. Why the FAA shows no record of a permanent certificate is beyond me. Well nothing surprises me anymore with them but you know what I mean.

The builder supplied me with a statement to certify that the hours were true similiar to the statement that's at the bottom of each page of a log book. Thanks a ton BTW Jim if you read this.

My question is do you think an FAA inspector would accept the logbook entries as proof that the aircraft was test flown and the 40 hour test period was flown off? This would save me an enormous headache and having to deal with them. There's only one DAR near me and he is not yet certified to sign off fabric covered airplanes or I'd only be dealing exclusively with him.

If anyone has any experience dealing with logs and the FAA please pipe in and let me know what you think. I'll be calling my local FSDO at some point today but it would nice going in with a little education and ammunition.

Avid,
the FAA aircraft registration web site shows your plane was issued an Airworthyness on 4/15/92. You can look it up at
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/

My opinion on how to proceed is to apply for a replacement for that lost airworthyness certificate. If you can get it replaced the new certificate will have operating limitations attached that tell exactly what to write in the aircraft log book to document the 40 hour phase one testing complete.

You will notice on the FAA web site that the status of the aircraft is in question. That always shows up when an aircraft has been sold and the new owner hasn't registered it yet. That may be what is throwing whoever you have talked to at the FSDO into a tail spin.

I have that certificate you looked up but it was a Special Airworthiness Certificate and it expired 6 months after it was issued.

Seems like your trying to take short cuts. The 40 Hour sign off is just written in the log. Its not inspected after that.

Your just finding one of the many reasons not to buy projects unless you get everything you need up front.

Why if you have no documentation would you not want to fly off the 40 and put the plane through its paces, and form a POH you have to have one of those as well.

If you don't have logs they, at least here, couldnt care less about pilot log books. It will be cleaner to start over rather than get all the notarized proof it was ever done.

edit. Sorry for being a BC A H.

AvidFlyer wrote:I have that certificate you looked up but it was a Special Airworthiness Certificate and it expired 6 months after it was issued.

Avid,
This is a new one on me. These certificates do not expire. Experimental amateur built aircraft are issued a "Special Airworthiness Certificate" , category "Experimental" with "unlimited" in the Expire block. Once the required test flight hours are flown the owner documents that in the aircraft log book and is good to go. You can start a new log book with information you have.

Now I am going on what I have learned since I had my Kitfox inspected and an Airworthy issued in May, 2000. Maybe the rules were different in 1992.

If I were you I would try to find out what the AW certificates of amateur built experimentals issued in 1992 should say in the Expires block. Maybe someone here has one and can help out.

If it comes down to starting over with an inspection and a new AW certificate issued it can be done as long as the original builder is still around to document the building of the airplane. He could also document completing the phase one 40 hours flight testing.

Don't worry about how the nay sayers are badmouthing about the purchase. They are just jealous because of the freedom the Experimental category affords owners of these aircraft.

The Avid flyer is a proven design and flight testing will probably just be verifying the numbers already known.

edit. Sorry for being a BC A H.

Avid,
You got my curiosity up high enough that I did some research...goggling around the net...and found a document that explains your Airworthy Certificate expiration, I think. It looks like...and I am guessing a little...that the Amateur built Experimental AW certs used to expire if the test flight phase was not completed in a certain time frame. Here is a link to the document. You may need to be an EAA member to access this so I have copied and pasted the pertinate paragraphs below.

http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilder ... built.html?



The presence of an Expiry date entry would indicate that the original builder of the homebuilt has not yet flown off the mandatory flight hours in an assigned test area.

An "INDEFINITE" entry, on the other hand, indicates that the original flight test area restrictions have been removed. If this is the case, this aircraft may be flown, at will, to just about anywhere, anytime . . . as long as the flights are conducted in accordance with the aircraft's operating limitations document.

Experimental Operating Limitations
The Experimental Operating Limitations certificate is a companion document to the Special Airworthiness Certificate.



You should understand that a homebuilt must be operated in accordance with the operating limitations issued for it by the local FAA District Office. Each of the FAA Regions in the country probably has a different format for the document used for this purpose. That is because each FAA Region issues its own Experimental Operating Limitations document based upon their own interpretation of the criteria for its issuance. This criteria is outlined in their handbook, "FAA Airworthiness Certification of Aircraft and Related Approval."

If the aircraft's Experimental Operating Limitations had an "INDEFINITE" expiration date (same with the Special Airworthiness Certificate) no further action with the FAA is required.

If, however, both the Experimental Operating Limitations and the Special Airworthiness Certificate contain expiration dates, on the date of your purchase that aircraft must be considered to be "grounded". (On the sale of a homebuilt, the operating limitations document and the Special Airworthiness Certificate, as issued for an aircraft still undergoing its mandatory 25 to 40 hours in a restricted flight test area, is automatically cancelled (at least in this FAA Region). This means that you (the new owner) would then have to go to the nearest FAA MIDO (District Office) and obtain a new Experimental Operating Limitations document and a new Special Airworthiness Certificate. This process may entail another inspection of the aircraft by the FAA. At any rate, you better check with your local FAA inspector regarding the status of these two important documents.

Oh, I think I could get the forty hours flown off in two weeks
Or as we used to say in the Army, don't let a pencil stand between you and your minimums

tcj wrote:Avid,
You got my curiosity up high enough that I did some research...goggling around the net...and found a document that explains your Airworthy Certificate expiration, I think.

If you would have done that first you wouldn't have doubted those that know

A64 is right on the money

Avid,
Nice talking to you today. I think you should do what you can to get get the paperwork straightened out now that you have a line on the original builder. That way far less things could come back to haunt you in the future.

Looking forward to doing some flying with you next year when both our planes are in the air.