Terrible news...

http://www.9news.com/story/news/local/2014/06/30/loveland-ski-area-crash/11766569/

The speculation in the article about the potential cause of the crash makes it sound even worse. No explanation will provide any solace to the families of those lost, but the thought of following a road to the dead end of a tunnel would add insult to injury.

Awful news.

It was a very rough, tumbly day on the lee side of the mountains here this morning.

I bought my first plane in Ohio in 2000. Flew it back to Nor Cal. Spent a few days in Longmont, CO waiting on weather. The local pilots gave me some advice about flying over the Rockies. As I remember it was that if winds aloft at 15K are over 25kts you better stay in Longmont.

When they got to below 20kts I headed home. I assume they get those rollers like east of the Sierra's in California. Not fun.

Tim

Closure.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_26067999/loveland-ski-area-plane-crash-ohio-family-three?source=hot-topic-bar

Very capable plane. Very high and rugged mountains. Rough winds. Condolences to their loved ones.

These stories are always so sad to me. Condolences to all affected. I'm sure there are many, as this was a young family in the prime of their lives.

Careful for the summer flying season, everyone. Our shared passion can be terribly unforgiving at times.

A 6 year old kid. So sad.

qmdv wrote:I bought my first plane in Ohio in 2000. Flew it back to Nor Cal. Spent a few days in Longmont, CO waiting on weather. The local pilots gave me some advice about flying over the Rockies. As I remember it was that if winds aloft at 15K are over 25kts you better stay in Longmont.

When they got to below 20kts I headed home. I assume they get those rollers like east of the Sierra's in California. Not fun.

Tim

Rules of thumb. That's a good one.

I hate hearing these stories. It's rough terrain up there, without a lot of margin for error. I have no idea what these folks were flying, or what led to the tragic outcome of this flight. But, after hearing about the accident from a friend who was hiking near there I started to look at the conditions near Loveland Pass. It was definitely warm up there that afternoon, and the terrain is quite high. I'm guessing density altitudes in excess of 15K to get over the terrain, which probably didn't help, but that's just speculation on my part.

The reason I continue to harp on controversial techniques when the school solution is, "you don't have to be there," is that pilots somehow do get there.

coloradokevin wrote:I hate hearing these stories. It's rough terrain up there, without a lot of margin for error. I have no idea what these folks were flying, or what led to the tragic outcome of this flight. But, after hearing about the accident from a friend who was hiking near there I started to look at the conditions near Loveland Pass. It was definitely warm up there that afternoon, and the terrain is quite high. I'm guessing density altitudes in excess of 15K to get over the terrain, which probably didn't help, but that's just speculation on my part.

According to one of the articles they were in a PA-28-235. Pretty good mountain airplane I would think. It takes an honest 14k to cross Loveland pass, DA obviously being significantly higher than that. The crash was around 8:45 am so temps weren't way up there yet, but here in Salida I've been seeing DA break 10k easily around that time lately.

The I-70 route doesn't seem to leave a lot of room for turning back unless you're really high right from the start.

Serious bummer.

I don't know the details but I know the terrain and the passes around there. I would have gone through Loveland pass which I slightly lower and only a few miles to the south east, it's 11990 if I remember correctly. The ridge over the Eisenhower tunnel is around 13k.

Far, far better to go north to milner or cameron pass - a lot lower, its faster and more benign route to Moab - even rollins pass is far better as it's 1-and-done, and you know what alitude you need to be at to cross. If the winds are not howling - and they weren't that day - you can cross milner 3,000 lower than loveland and bomb straight downvalley to Eagle picking up I70 and over to Moab.

the point is this guys killed is family because of his ignorance of the terrain and the performance of his plane

there is room to turn around at the tunnel - but you need to be flying close to the terrain on 1 side of the other and slow way the hell down (canyon turn). He was probably flying the middle of the valley to the cirque - thereby cutting himself off half of his turning distance - and probably flying Vy while ignorant of the density altitude. always put yourself in a position to turn to lower terrain and have an out

It's hard to fathom how people can still be doing this type of crap in the age of information - he got his ticket just 2 years ago

soyAnarchisto wrote:Far, far better to go north to milner or cameron pass - a lot lower, its faster and more benign route to Moab - even rollins pass is far better as it's 1-and-done, and you know what alitude you need to be at to cross. If the winds are not howling - and they weren't that day - you can cross milner 3,000 lower than loveland and bomb straight downvalley to Eagle picking up I70 and over to Moab.

The seat belts of a passenger and mine got a brief workout flying near Longs Peak just hours before this. There were a lot of big ups and downs, and a 30 mph tailwind when we headed for home. It was the first thing I thought about when I heard the news, but we'll likely never know what the factors were.

I-70 is usually pretty much last in my choices to cross. It really doesn't go anywhere that the small dogleg through one of the other passes won't take you as you mentioned, and most behave a lot better when the wind howls from some directions.