Reason to make this turn, the need to turn at low alt and at low speed.
Sportsman and Vgs changes the wing dramatically, I dont think I would try this turns at this speeds with the stock wing.
Those turns are fun.

The important consideration in any cross controlled turn (rudder turn) is to make up for the loss of airspeed on the wing in the direction of the turn. We want to have the extra energy of ground effect or the extra energy of gravity thrust (diving). We have no need to make rudder turns at altitude.

The two situations where rudder turns become the safer turn are on a takeoff requiring a turn before enough altitude can be safely gained to clear the down wing and on short final where a turn is required to make the landing zone. Wires can complicate the situation because we would have to be out of ground effect, on takeoff, to clear the down wing. Under might be safer, but some might not want to go there. On crooked short final, it is important to get the turn done in time to get the wing level over wires or to not put a wing into the ground. Cross control, skid, is safer in ground effect or with the nose down.

Regardless of the aircraft, staying in low ground effect is important for crooked takeoff. Regardless of the airplane making the landing, using enough rudder to get the nose around while the nose is down prevents putting a down wing into something.

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We can safely practice the rudder turn Motoadve is doing by using aileron only to keep the wing level and rudder only to turn the airplane from one side of the runway to the other in low ground effect. Practice fast first and then work slower airspeed until you are in hover taxi.

It would be interesting to know whether you carry some ballast to move the CG a bit back when flying solo. Flying solo you might expect the centre of fuselage lift to be behind the CG and therefore aiding the wings level turn. The more forward the CG the more this would be the case. Conversely in a 206 with a longer fuselage the centre of fuselage lift may be nearer the CG with a load, and the ability to turn wings level would be less easy. At forward CG the 206 would turn easier - where the CG lies with respect to the centre of fuselage lift is a factor.

The take off turn in the video is to the left with a clockwise turning propeller. The propeller slipstream and P-effect are helping, a lot, in this level wing turn, with gyroscopic effect helping raise the nose slightly. Conversely, a level wing turn to the right these propeller forces would be working against the turn. Which way you are turning is also a factor.

Skidding a turn creates lots of variables including aileron drag on the retreating wing, which eliminates the effect of washout on that wing, while increasing the effect of washout on the advancing wing.

All your aerodynamics seems accurate. I expect Motoadve has made right rudder turns, in ground effect, as well. His entry into the gravel bar, in the video, was a right coordinated turn but I think he used enough rudder to bring the nose around on final. The main thing is enough energy either ground effect or descending. I have done thousands each way without consideration of the aerodynamics, except energy management.

Motoadve is safely exploring the capabilities of his airplane, but mostly himself. Different airplanes have different power and capabilities. Pilots need to be sensitive to the feel of the energy available, or not, of whatever they are flying.

Teddy Roosevelt, after San Juan without the horses, said, "do the best you can with what you have where you are. "

In a descending low power condition the aircraft will be tending to yaw right, so again aiding the level wing skidding turn to the right. This would be due to the rudder offset overcoming the propeller effect due to low power. The right yaw tendency occurs above rudder neutral speed, eg in a high speed descent. Having to add power in a skidding level right turn would then require more right rudder as the propeller effect bites at low speed.

In a high wing, ground effect is reduced and most of the benefit of improved effective alpha will disappear above 30 feet agl.

Thinking through the principles of flight aspects hopefully is useful in planning this type approach.

Yes, these principles are useful to think about. The rudder overcomes the left turning effect of gyroscopic precession when we bring the tail up and p factor when we raise the nose on takeoff. We need to level in low ground effect, on takeoff, before safely making rudder turns to make a sharp bend, left or right, to stay in the drainage and out of obstructions.

The rudder overcomes the right turning tendency on slow descending approach.

Float plane pilots use rudder turn to break suction on still water, but I'm not familiar with that. I have used rudder turns extensively like Motoadve, on crooked ingress and egress and in the crop field to go around obstructions without messing up my spray pattern. Because the latter is at full speed, full rudder deflection away from the obstruction brings the airplane away from the obstruction. This is followed by full deflection toward the obstruction. The nose, which is shorter than the wing, passes the obstruction obstruction. Finally, we push full rudder away from the obstruction to continue, beyond the obstruction, down the original crop row. Considerable amount of cross control of the aileron is necessary to keep the wing level and out of the crop during this maneuver.

Don't practice the crop duster pole pass rudder turn without help. What Motoadve is so capably performing in the video can and should be used in this crooked ingress egress situation. The much more dangerous option would be to attempt out climbing terrain straight ahead on takeoff and to attempt a steep approach over trees very close to a very confined landing zone.

Doing cross control turns at slow speed and low altitude or (slips)as it is commonly known. Are best practiced by folk like The O.P. who has a good feel for his plane in all flight modes.
Like rolling turns in aerobatics, if you have to slow down enough to think through the processes of the aerodynamics that are involved as well as the inputs required, you are usually behind the airplane if that is happening in real time.
I have always been amazed at us as pilots and the uncanny ability we have to make correct inputs if we are familiar with our particular mount, without, in some cases even understanding the aerodynamics that’s going on!
A lot like landing a Squirrley Taildragger, if you were not on auto pilot you will quickly be in the weeds!

Love your videos BTW.

A slip is actually not a turn, a cross controlled turn is a skidding turn.

In aerobatics you do need to exhibit rhythm and positioning, so in competition the actual manoeuvre has to be second nature - doesn’t mean that to get it, so that it is second nature, you haven’t thought through your mistakes using principles of flight.

Fuselage lift is very different between a Pitts and an Extra, so energy management and how a rolling turn is flown with precision and smoothness requires some forethought depending on type.

L18-C95,

I am not familiar with competition aerobatics, but it seems you are talking about pure rather than practical side slip, forward slip, and skidding turn. It is true that directing our course down the centerline extended through touchdown and roll out is the objective of the rudder and prevention of drift is the objective of aileron in the side slip. It is true that directing our butt down the centerline extended to desired altitude on final is generally the objective of the forward slip where rudder is used to hold the nose off course while aileron is used to direct our butt down the centerline extended. It is true that skidding, using rudder only to push the nose around, is more efficient in rate of turn than a coordinated turn.

While purity of separation of control function (uncoordinated rudder and aileron) is desirable in side slip to get down on one wheel without drift and in the skidding turn to prevent a wing going down into the ground, there are situations where we need flexibility.

When Motoadve made the rudder turn on takeoff, the objective was both to stay in low ground effect for good energy management and to prevent putting a wing into the ground. A pure, or nearly pure, rudder turn was necessary. Terrain consideration was to not waste energy to the point of stall trying to outclimb terrain straight ahead or in a climbing coordinated turn.

When Motoadve was turning/descending base to final in the drainage, he was skidding as necessary to increase the rate of turn. He was also forward slipping as necessary to increase rate of descent. We can increase rate of descent, as necessary, with unbalanced extra bank. We can increase rate of turn, as necessary, with unbalanced extra rudder.

In either air to air maneuvering or in air to ground maneuvering, objective is primary. Purity of coordination is generally desirable. Purity of uncoordinated rudder/aileron is desirable in side slip to maintain longitudinal axis alignment. Purity of uncoordinated rudder/aileron in the rudder turn in low ground effect. Sort of mixed up in the forward slip while turning to landing but changing to skidding turn close to terrain.

Principles still in effect. Tactical situations can be fluid. Not always pretty, just mission orientation.

Dang Fellers, I don’t think I’m smart enough to fly one these here thangs!

Move a control. If you don't like what happens, move it the other way.

contactflying wrote:Move a control. If you don't like what happens, move it the other way.

I understand your point, however I believe the 182 and the 206 have about the same length fuselage, don't they?