Looking for ideas
Just getting in to the LSA world
Price point of $30k or less closer to $20k the better
My mission is regular X/C trips of around 200nm one way
Passenger will be a 50lb dog or every once in a while a passenger
would like it to be able to land off airport.
ability to fly in the winter so heater or ability to add a heater and not be miserable
some camping 50LB cargo if i am packing very very very heavy
folding wings would be nice but not a limiting factor
would prefer push button start. being low hours, solo, and short it would be more of a safety thing for me.
i am in southern Oregon so hot days and high airport elevation is the norm

looking at possibly a champ but its a wee bit on the slow side.
considered a J3 cub but as above on the slow side.
I see a lot of low hour kit fox 4 in my area in my price range
any other ideas or thoughts are welcome

The Luscombe 8A is LSA. There are 2 of them on Barnstormers one for $13,500 the other for $14,000. Both have low time engines. Still kind of slow (most LSAs are) but may work for what you want to do.

Agree. Luscombe 8A is the fastest older TW light sport. Have mechanic check AD on the bulkhead at the front of the horizontal stabilizer and for corrosion in cross tube between wings. Both have been around a long time and have probably been done. I replaced the bulkhead that had the AD on my 8A. Looked like Swiss cheese.

The Luscombe parts guy in Phoenix (Gilbert ) really knows the airplane, if he is still around.

i completely over looked the Luscombe 8A that could be a very good fit thanks for the info
probably wont have my finances lined up till this summer so mostly window shopping right now

If you're open to building, check out the BeLite Pipper. It's a 2-seat LSA kit coming into production now at a very attractive price, and seems to meet your criteria. Build time looks pretty low. Being a kit of course you get your choice of engine, tailwheel or tricycle, etc.

I would second the suggestion about the Belite Pipper. Looks like a really neat design that will be amazingly strong. Jim Weibe is using honeycomb aluminum panels for a lot of structural integrity.

Another suggestion would be to go to Barnstormers.com and search using the term "LSA", and set the price limits from $0 to $30000 (or whatever your max figure is - maybe even $2-3K above, allowing for bargaining with the seller). I just did that, and found well over 50 airplanes that met that criteria, including quite a few I probably would NOT have thought of otherwise. Then you can do some research on those that appeal to you, and that might help steer your search.

By the way, I would seriously look at a Kitfox in your situation. Several are listed on Barnstormers for under $30K...

JP256 wrote:I would second the suggestion about the Belite Pipper. Looks like a really neat design that will be amazingly strong. Jim Weibe is using honeycomb aluminum panels for a lot of structural integrity.

Another suggestion would be to go to Barnstormers.com and search using the term "LSA", and set the price limits from $0 to $30000 (or whatever your max figure is - maybe even $2-3K above, allowing for bargaining with the seller). I just did that, and found well over 50 airplanes that met that criteria, including quite a few I probably would NOT have thought of otherwise. Then you can do some research on those that appeal to you, and that might help steer your search.

By the way, I would seriously look at a Kitfox in your situation. Several are listed on Barnstormers for under $30K...

The Kitfox interests me a lot but people seem to be dumping them as fast as they build them lots of very very low hour ones on the market. Makes me wonder what the deal is...

Swolf wrote:

JP256 wrote:The Kitfox interests me a lot but people seem to be dumping them as fast as they build them lots of very very low hour ones on the market. Makes me wonder what the deal is...

Some people do just build planes for the joy of building, and then sell the finished product. I have no insight on the Kitfox situation though. They seem a capable aircraft, as LSAs go.

Swolf wrote:Looking for ideas
Just getting in to the LSA world
Price point of $30k or less closer to $20k the better
My mission is regular X/C trips of around 200nm one way
Passenger will be a 50lb dog or every once in a while a passenger
would like it to be able to land off airport.
ability to fly in the winter so heater or ability to add a heater and not be miserable
some camping 50LB cargo if i am packing very very very heavy
folding wings would be nice but not a limiting factor
would prefer push button start. being low hours, solo, and short it would be more of a safety thing for me.
i am in southern Oregon so hot days and high airport elevation is the norm

looking at possibly a champ but its a wee bit on the slow side.
considered a J3 cub but as above on the slow side.
I see a lot of low hour kit fox 4 in my area in my price range
any other ideas or thoughts are welcome

What part of Southern Oregon.... I'm near Medford...

There is a C-90 powered Champ at Beagle.. do not know what his asking price is... always seems to be a KitFox around for sale... I have experience in those if you have questions..

Brian


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Belite Pipper looks interesting but i tend to stay away from first runs of any thing also have to wonder how you would repair something like that

Never owned any of them, but flown a couple. For me, I get the nicest Champ I could afford. It's just a cool classic plane that flies well. Probably sell it and break even.

The kitfox has a huge following though, and you always see them at the backcountry fly ins going into neat places. Seem fast for what they are and nice group of enthusiasts.

fiftynineSC wrote:Never owned any of them, but flown a couple. For me, I get the nicest Champ I could afford. It's just a cool classic plane that flies well. Probably sell it and break even.

The kitfox has a huge following though, and you always see them at the backcountry fly ins going into neat places. Seem fast for what they are and nice group of enthusiasts.

I think champ is at the top of my list at the moment. the other choice was a Luscombe 8 but its got quite a bit of a take off roll for off airport use.

Suggestions
If you are going to fly an older - simpler plane in the winter.

DRESS FOR GOING DOWN! -
You will probably need the clothing when ya get where yer goin' anyway.

Older rag planes leak cold air EVERYWHERE.
Have even duct taped the inside of the door once inside.

A Champ that came originally with a C-90 may be the heavier version that
flies more like a brick than the earlier Champs - no time to check type #s.

Not as bad as the difference between a 150 and the Aerobat.

Don't think you want your dog in the front seat of a J-3.
Back seat of J-5 would be a good dogie bed.
Or a T-cart.

Don't rely on "low time" engine.
Know two low 50 hr. engines that went south all too soon.

Luscombes (sp) are tense and tough if well maintained as mentioned above.
Spent years solo propping rag time planes and early aluminum ones.
Gotta be consistent in process.
Never did it on icy surface.

Nuff for now

As long as everything is in order prebuy wise, this would fit your needs.

Reasonable speed depending on prop (100-120)
Range (24gal)
Off airport (Get some VG's, Desser 22-8.50s and a better tailwheel)
Electric start

Spend a bunch on gas to learn how to fly that wing.


http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1184359_Taylorcraft+BC12-D%2C+O-200.html

I have owned and flown an Avid Flyer (Kitfox's brother), and currently my brother and I have a Champ, I would take the Champ any day over a Kitfox. One of the problems with any experimental is, who built it. A factory built plane is a better pick if you don't know or have the skills to do the work it takes to keep them flying. There are alot of great builders out there but, their builds usually go for more money than you want to spend.

Another good airplane is a Taylorcraft, faster than a Cub or Champ. If you can find one with an 85hp on it, it will perform at higher elevations much better(the same goes for the Champ and Cub).

Just keep in mind that even though a J3, etc. can be flown by a sport pilot, it's still a certified aircraft and comes with all the baggage there in. If that's your cup of tea, then it's a fine way to go.

wannabe wrote: DRESS FOR GOING DOWN! -

that is a given i spend a lot of time in snow cats in the winter and turn a lot of engineers away when they show up in dress shoes and slacks when it is nearly a blizzard out side.

gbflyer wrote:Just keep in mind that even though a J3, etc. can be flown by a sport pilot, it's still a certified aircraft and comes with all the baggage there in. If that's your cup of tea, then it's a fine way to go.

I own both types, certified and experimental. Both versions have their pros and cons. I much prefer experimental due to being able to do most anything I need verses having to get it signed off by an A&P. It can be a major costs savings if you are mechanically inclined. The labor costs of $70+/ hr., to pay someone to fix most any issue you have, can deplete that savings account very quickly.

It sounds like you are already on a limited budget and you definitely don't want to buy something only to have it in a shop shortly after getting it to your base of operations. Seen it happen too many times to guys that buy their dream plane and then end up giving up flying because it costs too much. Another thing to consider is most of these older planes were/are trainers and as such, can be quite well used and in need of constant repairs. The Champs,Chief, Cub, Taylorcraft, Luscombe, etc. were mainly built in the late 1930's-50's, making the newest ones 65+ years old!
While parts are generally available, occasionally you might come across a part broken part that is hard to find a replacement for. Just food for thought.

I think your mission fits a Kitfox perfectly. The biggest advantage of an ELSA is that you can take a weekend course and receive a repairman certificate for your specific tail number. You can't do that with a certified airplane. This drastically lowers the annual cost of maintenance, if you are comfortable doing the maintenance. The other advantage of the LSA is the drivers license medical, but in March that will apply to larger aircraft so if that is the reason you are looking at LSA then you should possibly consider larger aircraft in your price range.
Back to the Kitfox, I would recommend looking for a IV or 5,6,7 or supersport. The earlier models I personally would avoid. Stick with 4 stroke engines, Rotax or Lycoming. The kit fox lands short, takes off short and has a good cruise speed. For all around performance I think it is one of the best compromises. If you have questions or need information for a pre-buy feel free to ask.

Bryan

...... The other advantage of the LSA is the drivers license medical, but in March that will apply to larger aircraft so if that is the reason you are looking at LSA then you should possibly consider larger aircraft in your price range. ......Bryan[/quote]

Not really. Different &hopefully better than the old 3rd class medical, but not as carefree as the sport pilot drivers license standard.