Interesting responses to her note.

Lady buys a great backcountry strip that has been enjoyed in the past by all, closes it down to only (her words) the "exclusive" and calls back country pilots that fly in "cattle," and the response is good on you I'll bring my wife (and wallet???)

I guess that's why it's called private property. And lucky for us we are still free to do what we want with our own property (most things anyway).

I enjoyed the open door policy at Mackay Bar, it's a beautiful place. Oh well, glad I took some pictures.

I think Mackay Bar Ranch may be missing out on the value that "Drop In Pilots" add to their business. I guess time will tell. But I wonder how much of their business was created by drop in pilots having an excellent breakfast and experience there and then reporting back on forums like this with trip reports, pictures and video's? My guess that is great for business and if I was the owner, that type of PR would be more than welcomed.

As far as extra perishable food storage for drop in guest. I can't imagine having extra eggs, bacon, sausage, and potatoes take up that much more room. Some of these items store well for long periods. And whipping up some extra breakfast for drop in's doesn't take that much time. (Not to mention the profit on a $10.00-$15.00 breakfast). Your serving breakfast for the confirmed guests anyway. Just have it known to the drop in's that breakfast will only be served during the normal guest hours (whatever times that is if its even feasible). I ran a hospitality rig for a professional race team and have an idea how easy it is to whip of breakfast for 30 people in less than 30 minutes. So I kind of have an idea what's going on in that arena.

But really. Mackay Bar can run their business anyway they want. I think I'll stay away and visit other ranches that are more welcoming to "Drop Ins". We'll see down the road how well Mackays new business strategy works for them. Best if luck to Mackay Bar Ranch.

I don't mean to offend. Just hope the powers to be will rethink their business strategy and once again take advantage of drop in pilots to help with advertising and recommending Mackay Bar as a vacation, hunting and fishing destination.

Anyhoo........ Just my 2 cents

I agree .

IMHO as one who has operated similar businesses the decision to block people who have spent thousands of dollars (rafters) and others who have substantial investments in property ( pilots ) that allows them to visit the Idaho backcountry due to problems with food logistics is not a good business decision and may be symptomatic.

The previous owners understood that when you operate in the middle of the wilderness it is important to take advantage of any potential contact you can and they "turned around" a struggling business and made Mackay Bar once again one of the jewels of the Idaho backcountry. I hope they are patient.

I wish Buck well and hope he can find a lot of Elk and Bear.

bigrenna wrote:Interesting responses to her note.

Lady buys a great backcountry strip that has been enjoyed in the past by all, closes it down to only (her words) the "exclusive" and calls back country pilots that fly in "cattle," and the response is good on you I'll bring my wife (and wallet???)

I did not take the cattle comment in a bad way. I totally understand they want a super high-quality experience for their exclusive guest. Any of us can be there exclusive guest and fly our airplanes in, all you have to do is be willing to pay for it.

Those of us who have been to Mackey bar I'm sure will admit it's probably the nicest place you can fly into in that area. After all it is their business, and their business model and they can run it anyway they choose.

It makes me laugh how pilots can be so cheap sometimes. Flying machines worth tens of thousands of dollars If not hundreds of thousands of dollars and cost around a hundred dollars an hour to fly.

And yes it is the kind of place that my wife would love to go to, and I would like to treat her to that kind of an experience. And I will get out my wallet to do it.

Cheers

Last spring I looked into spending several nights there with my wife, if I remember right they wanted about $250.00 per person in a private room, with no break for double occupancy, I deducted the meals and did the math and it worked out to be about $90.00 for the privilege of having my wife share my private room and sleep in my bed (not that she is not worth it). I called and asked about it, I got the impression that they were trying to sort out the riffraff then, (camping fees ECT.) if you have to ask you can’t afford it. Yup pilot are an odd bunch, although I fly a machine worth tens of thousands of dollars and costs $100.00 dollars an hour to fly, I still have a hard time spending that kind of money to hang out there for a night or two, we are happy sleeping in a tent at a back country airstrip. It’s a shame we have lost another Icon of back country destinations, but like the man said that’s why they call it private property.

It's the same with the fishing or hunting lodges. $10-20K or more for a week, or head out on your own for the cost of a tag, just not on their property. If you're catering to the Gulfstream pax crowd, you probably don't want Spam Can drivers showing up dulling down the conversation, and worrying about the cost of a room or meal.

Time, and the market, will tell the tale.

Gump

I've stayed at some of the backcountry lodges (Sulphur, Big Creek etc.) in deference to my wife, but never seriously thought about staying at the the pricier "exclusive" resorts like the Middle Fork Ranch, Diamond D. or Wapiti. I don't go to the wilderness for haute cuisine or 1800 thread count sheets. I go for beautiful country. If I wanted beautiful people, I'd go to Sun Valley. Too bad about breakfast, though.

CAVU

I think all of you that are upset because they do not want drop in business of any kind and feel you lost a back country gem then you should buy it from them and do as you feel. Problem solved!

WOW- Business must be very, very, very good to publish a public letter asking clients to go elswhere. I have seen this business model before reference "South Fork Lodge" east of Idaho Falls, Idaho. Several years ago they elected only to cater to the "elite" fly fishing community and not the locals. We walked in one night for dinner (6 people) and the well dressed lady told us they were only catering to the overnight guests that had "Orvis" tatooed to there butt Pretty darn funny a year later they came crawling back to the locals to support the business, last I heard they went under and it was taken over by some new folks. MacKay Bar Lodge good luck w/ your new business model - I will not be spending any of my money at your facility!

CAVU wrote:I've stayed at some of the backcountry lodges (Sulphur, Big Creek etc.) in deference to my wife, but never seriously thought about staying at the the pricier "exclusive" resorts like the Middle Fork Ranch, Diamond D. or Wapiti. I don't go to the wilderness for haute cuisine or 1800 thread count sheets. I go for beautiful country. If I wanted beautiful people, I'd go to Sun Valley. Too bad about breakfast, though.

CAVU

I've only stayed at the Flying B Ranch, so I don't know how it compares to the others listed above as far as accommodations. Price seemed reasonable, $175 a night per person, included all you could eat and drink (which included Beer). The meals were excellent and the staff very friendly. Rooms were fine. And they have a small General Store on the premises. Per day fee for Internet access for guests, don't recall the amount but I considered it reasonable. Higher fee for drop-ins.

SkyTruck wrote:I've flown over your place many times... I admire your vision for the "Ranch".
I will put pressure on the "Wife" to come visit.
Thanks for putting up with "Us" aviators, as we sometimes don't see the big picture.
However, if you are ever in need of anything, please don't hesitate to call on this site for assistance.
We understand the necessity of aviation in the Idaho BackCountry.

Sincerely,
Mark

Mark, thank you very much for your kind words in response to our posting. Very much appreciate your welcoming approach to calling on backcountry pilots for assistance. We'll continue to visit BackcountryPilot forum from time to time and stay in touch with the conversations. Sincerely, Joni

OregonMaule wrote:Joni: Thank you for the update on the situation. I am sure in the future I will be making reservations flying in to stay overnight. I'm sure my wife would love it. I understand your business plan and it sounds like you have it figured out. Good luck in your business venture.

Oregon Maule, thank you so much for your personal reply. We've got a lot of exciting plans for 2014 - even a potential plan for a Father's Day Weekend Round Up for backcountry pilots. We'll keep you posted here at the community forum, and also we invite you to subscribe to our blog where we're rolling out lots of info for upcoming events and insights. Let us know when/if we can accommodate you and your wife in the future. Thank you again. Sincerely, Joni

Superdave wrote:I think all of you that are upset because they do not want drop in business of any kind and feel you lost a back country gem then you should buy it from them and do as you feel. Problem solved!

I think you hit the nail on the head unfortunately. Did Mackey get over a 100 people for breakfast this summer? How about last? Are we talking a few hundred planes and rafters or a few thousand? I bet its in the 100 area but only they know. Figure $10 a head x 100 people. $1000 or even $2000 is not that much in the big picture nor is it really going to effect the business. Not to mention the liability factor for all the spam cans (as someone put it) just showing up announced or unannounced.

Yes if it were me I would keep it open but its not my place nor is it my business. Bummer but I understand.

Hey Mackey Bar- HOW ABOUT A FLY IN??????

AKT

A big THANKS goes out to the nice handful of backcountry pilot members who took the time to Private Message us with your very friendly comments, in reply to our post. We appreciate your support and those who posted positive public messages, as well. The caliber of your character is quite apparent and we welcome you to contact us at Mackay Bar Ranch anytime should you desire to engage in a hunting or fishing adventure or one of our planned group events.

2013 has been a successful year so far, and now we're entering our fall hunting season - with a healthy level of bookings by hunters who want the Mackay Bar experience we offer. Big Game, Big Fish, Pristine Waters, well maintained grounds, upgraded beautiful cabins, home prepared delicious meals, a friendly one-on-one personal touch, and spectacular landscapes are all part of the experience....and while Buck and I realize we are unable to please everyone, Mackay Bar Ranch has received plenty of comments, testimonials and evidence in our bookings (and plans for repeat business from guests) to prove that we're successfully engaged in a really exciting, personally rewarding future, as owners and operators of this special place called Mackay Bar Ranch.

Thank you gentlemen.

Sincerely Joni.

I heard a discussion once from a backcountry breakfast stop who I would rather not name. The owners/operators were talking the ups and downs of the breakfast business. I have no way of knowing if the dollars mentioned are accurate or not, but the explanation showed me a different perspective on the Back Country Breakfast Business.

Everyone can see that the operation of one of these spots, is hardly comparable to a Denny's and their obstacles are much different and having to deal with flying/boating or packing in LP gas and supplies are just the start of the differences. Throw in the weeks of one or two breakfasts for the week in a already short season. Consider the effects of a TFR or even smoke for weeks and the effect on business along with the length of the season. When you add up the possible income from a week in June, just consider the weekend in July or August when its hot and smoky. Consider the cost of LP to heat the large grill to operating temp for one or two breakfasts.

I'm not involved with any one of these operations, but just concerned when I see the ill feelings toward someone trying to make a go of it in a different way. I've been chastised for complaining about prices/policies, so I'm not innocent myself.

There is so much more to enjoy than to complain about in the back country. If you choose to boycott, do so. Remember that Mackay Bar was closed to fly-in traffic for years until just a few years ago when it opened to all of us. If you remember, they even had a landing fee. Be grateful for being able to enjoy it when our breakfast business was welcome.

Barnstormer wrote:I've only stayed at the Flying B Ranch, so I don't know how it compares to the others listed above as far as accommodations. Price seemed reasonable, $175 a night per person, included all you could eat and drink (which included Beer). The meals were excellent and the staff very friendly. Rooms were fine. And they have a small General Store on the premises. Per day fee for Internet access for guests, don't recall the amount but I considered it reasonable. Higher fee for drop-ins.

That's in line with what Sulphur and Mackay Bar are charging. I like the B, too.

I shouldn't have lumped Wapiti Meadow Ranch in the the Middle Fork Lodge ($500/person/night) and the Diamond D ($250/person/night). Their rates are lower and it's a totally different deal.

The bottom line is that it costs a lot to run these operations and we should expect to pay for the pleasure. I'd rather camp, but my wife likes a hot shower. I think I'm going to have to get one of these: http://www.campingshowerworld.com/the-zodi-hot-tap-single-burner-shower-and-propane-water-heater--hard-case.html#.Uie7jTakqo8. Then all I'll need is a Six Burner Coleman Stove, and everyone will be happy. Well, there's always hope, anyway.

CAVU

oh well... it's still a nice place to fly over... passed it up last July on the way to Elk City when I heard we weren't welcome... too bad.. lets see we still have Flying B, Sulphur creek, Big Creek (soon) Smiley Creek, Castle creek?, Root ranch, Elk City, Elk RIver,Dixie town and I'm sure one or two more... no big loss... Good luck there Joni.....

wapiti meadow is closed so I heard, and they never wanted us there anyway unless you stayed a week...which is another closed outfit who catered to only a certain clientelle..and was an Orvis recommended lodge....

CAVU wrote:

Barnstormer wrote:I've only stayed at the Flying B Ranch, so I don't know how it compares to the others listed above as far as accommodations. Price seemed reasonable, $175 a night per person, included all you could eat and drink (which included Beer). The meals were excellent and the staff very friendly. Rooms were fine. And they have a small General Store on the premises. Per day fee for Internet access for guests, don't recall the amount but I considered it reasonable. Higher fee for drop-ins.

That's in line with what Sulphur and Mackay Bar are charging. I like the B, too.

I shouldn't have lumped Wapiti Meadow Ranch in the the Middle Fork Lodge ($500/person/night) and the Diamond D ($250/person/night). Their rates are lower and it's a totally different deal.

The bottom line is that it costs a lot to run these operations and we should expect to pay for the pleasure. I'd rather camp, but my wife likes a hot shower. I think I'm going to have to get one of these: http://www.campingshowerworld.com/the-zodi-hot-tap-single-burner-shower-and-propane-water-heater--hard-case.html#.Uie7jTakqo8. Then all I'll need is a Six Burner Coleman Stove, and everyone will be happy. Well, there's always hope, anyway.

CAVU

I don't think I need a hot shower, but I can still recognize that device as being kind of genius!