A couple people here are interested in Mexico, so I don't think is egregiously off topic. Be aware that starting Dec/31, with *very* little warning, Mexico is changing to an eAPIS style system but without the benefit of a public website on which to make your filing. For the moment, I'm only aware of two options to do the filing and both are fee based. The cheaper of them to the tune of $25 - $35 per entry/exit. The penalty for non-compliance is the same as the one in the US, $5,000.

I will be using the Caribbean Sky Tours approach as they have an obvious "pay as you go" plan. Arinc is the corporate partner developing the program for the Mexican government, but I don't see any way to register a flight with them except by getting a membership designed (and priced) for corporate customers.

http://shop.caribbeanskytours.com/categ ... egoryId=32

I just flew back last week and I got a 13 month entry exit for $62(current exchange rate), albeit it took about hour and a half to get all the paperwork done.

dogpilot wrote:I just flew back last week and I got a 13 month entry exit for $62(current exchange rate), albeit it took about hour and a half to get all the paperwork done.

Is that the same thing? I don't have my flight bag with me to check, but that sounds like the old multi-entry permit. Do you have information that it will satisfy this requirement also? I've been told it won't, that it is more like the CBP sticker and that this new system is akin to eAPIS.

They said good to go until 2015. My Mexican attorney was with me at Hermosillo when I did the paperwork, only needed 3/8 " of docs.

Yikes, this doesn't sound good. Since selling my plane in 9-2012, I, obviously, have not flown back to Baja. About the only comment I can contribute is if you fly into Mexico you should consider joining Baja Bush Pilots. I was a long time member and while I never joined any of their mass flights, their forum and newsletters were a good source of info and they are pro-active in supporting our interests in flying to Mexico. I also used their insurance program for my yearly insurance needs.

We have been at our place in southern Baja since Oct 28th. We have seen a TOTAL of 3 GA planes fly by. This is such a contrast to the "old" days when I kept a handheld radio by the door and binoculars to chat up any and all planes that flew by. Routinely there were dozens of planes per week, very sad what is happening to flying, especially down here. FF

OK, call me what ever u want, but i have never left anything there i need to go back and get....too much fun/work flying up here to worry about mexico and all their mess...after our KTM pal got killed there during the last baja 1000, kind of lost my wanna to go there...but i do realize a lot of folks like it there...maybe i've been in idaho too long...!? i guess the way i look at it, they should pay us to even show up there....!

dogpilot wrote:They said good to go until 2015. My Mexican attorney was with me at Hermosillo when I did the paperwork, only needed 3/8 " of docs.

I would be greatly appreciative of information on how to get this done.

FloatFlyer wrote:About the only comment I can contribute is if you fly into Mexico you should consider joining Baja Bush Pilots.

Yeah, I'm a member of Caribbean Sky Tours to satisfy that need. Agreed that staying current is a challenge otherwise. Here's what CST had to say on this subject:

There has been so much varying information on the Mexico APIS topic that we would like to lay out what we do, and don’t, know.

In December, 2011 we alerted the General Aviation community about legislation being implemented by the Mexican government regarding the implementation of an APIS system. We contacted Mexican Immigration and Mexico’s DGAC as well as AOPA to determine what the intentions were and advise. During this time we had contacted the Mexican DGAC and Mexican Immigration as well as FEMPPA (Mexican Federation of Pilots and Aircraft Owners) to express our great concerns about the negative impact an APIS system would have on General Aviation tourism to Mexico. Furthermore, we also demonstrated how the regulations that were being proposed did not apply to General Aviation and that it would be impossible to comply with these regulations. Some of these issues included; filing the manifest within 30 minutes of departure, transmitting a passenger manifest after the door of the aircraft was closed but prior to takeoff, seat numbers for passengers, amongst other non-applicable requirements.

To our knowledge, there have been no consultations with the Mexican General Aviation industry, Mexican Aviation Associations nor with Mexican International airport owners or operators at any time regarding the development of this law nor how and when it would be implemented. We are not aware of a public bidding process for selecting who would design or build the APIS portal. Therefore, no opportunities have existed for the General Aviation community in Mexico or in the USA to become aware of what was coming and when. Nonetheless, the Mexican government is proceeding with the APIS regulations as written and has selected ARINC as the only method for submitting a Mexican APIS. There is NO PUBLIC PORTAL like in the USA or CARICOM. Regrettably, ARINC is charging rates for the use of their portal which are many, many times more than the rates of other 3’rd party APIS companies like Fltplan.com. Therefore, there is NO WAY that a Mexican or foreign citizen can comply with the Mexican APIS regulations without paying ARINC or someone using the ARINC system for flying from, or to, Mexico.

As there have been no consultations or communications with the industry, it was not until ARINC began circulating a presentation of their new portal and that they had been selected as the exclusive supplier to the Mexican government that local airport operators in Mexico became aware that something was happening. With no clear communications from the Mexican government, confusion and contradiction has reigned.

In November, 2013 the Mexican government published in the Mexican Federal Register that the APIS system was being implemented on December 31, 2013 for companies engaged in “regular and non-regular” passenger transport (LAS EMPRESAS DE SERVICIOS DE TRANSPORTE AÉREO INTERNACIONAL REGULAR Y NO REGULAR DE PASAJEROS). The notification indicates that the Mexican Government has chosen ARINC as the only method for satisfying the APIS requirements. We have contacted ARINC and have been unable to get anyone who can answer specific questions. We have also spoken to the owners of airports and to the managers of FBO’s at the largest airports in Mexico. Nobody knows anything concrete, there is a lot of confusion. We have also heard unsubstantiated rumors about the December 31, 2013 deadline including private flights and that there may be a delay in the implementation date until January 13, 2014 amongst other rumors. We have no concrete evidence other than what was published above in the Federal Register. One issue that makes us very concerned is that any aircraft registered to a corporation could be considered to be a company engaged in non-regular passenger transport.

Therefore, what we do know is:

• The new Mexican immigration law calls for the implementation of an APIS system for Commercial and Private aircraft and maritime vessels
• There have been no public notices made other than what was published in the Mexican Federal Register. It has not been added to the Mexican Aeronautical Information Publication.
• Much of the detailed regulations that have been published do not apply to General Aviation
• The latest publication indicates that the December 31, 2013 deadline is for “those companies providing services for regular and non-regular international air transport” (LAS EMPRESAS DE SERVICIOS DE TRANSPORTE AÉREO INTERNACIONAL REGULAR Y NO REGULAR DE PASAJEROS)
• The Mexican government has selected ARINC as the only method for complying with the law, for now.
• The Mexican Civil Aviation Authority expresses that they have no knowledge of these regulations or how they will be implemented
• There is a lot of confusion amongst airport operators, immigration officials and civil aviation officials at the major International Airports in Mexico.

Regrettably, there are more questions and answers. As compliance with the Mexican APIS regulations has become a for-profit enterprise, there is a lot of potential incentive to move forward with the requirements on PRIVATE flights. However, we cannot find anything in writing issued by the government to substantiate this.

Therefore, what we recommend to our members planning to fly to Mexico is the following:
• Contact us prior to making a flight to Mexico to obtain the latest information.
• If you aircraft is registered in the name of a corporation (even if you are a Part 91 flight) you should complete the Private Operations Declarations Letter from the Member website and have it notarized before flying to Mexico. You should also have a copy of your Single Entry or Multiple Entry Permit handy and make reference to the first paragraph which states that you are authorized to make PRIVATE, International, non-commercial flights (TRANSPORTE AEREO INTERNACIONAL PRIVADO NO COMERCIAL).

From a thread on Bush Pilots International (Baja Bush Pilots) an excerpt from the Mexican regulation.

Hello All,
I took a quick look at the posting from angel: http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle_popu ... go=5322024

And my understanding is that this "Notice" applies only to commercial enterprises that offer international air transport (airlines/charters).

AVISO por el que se da a conocer a las empresas de servicios de transporte aéreo internacional regular y no regular de pasajeros, el mecanismo electrónico y de coordinación necesario para la recepción y procesamiento de la información relativa a los pasajeros, tripulación y medios de transporte que entren o salgan del país, conforme al artículo 46 de la Ley de Migración.

Ricardo

Sounds like a cluster f***...... Guess I'll never fly to Mexico. Idaho sounds better anyways.

robw56 wrote:Sounds like a cluster f***...... Guess I'll never fly to Mexico. Idaho sounds better anyways.

Got that shit right...

Gump

I flew back on the 23rd from Hermosillo, a largish airport. Nobody brought this up at the DCA or the SCA office. I did several local area flights to complete some IR photography of the mine site I've been consulting at. The only thing they where more concerned about than normal was the copy of my authorization to operate the aircraft (notarized), since my leasing company owns it. Aside from more people with clipboards wandering about wanting my passport number & pilots license, if they got annoying I reverted to speaking only in Italian. Generally, everybody has been ultra nice on my last few trips, even carrying my bags out to the airplane and typing out my flight plans. There are no fees on local area flights. I can also get my airplane washed and detailed for about 150 pesos.

I'd say the only thing they have started doing that is annoying, is making me take everything out of my pockets and going through a metal detector to go out to my airplane, each and every time! Then again, I didn't mind too much, the customs officer, the one with the friendly dog, was a very attractive and friendly fox.

Now on our side, I had to sit there in the plane for about 15 minutes in Nogales, while the ICE agent went over the aircraft with a geiger counter. I joked with I'm not to check me too closely, since I slept about 50' above a nuclear reactor for several years.

The big things to them, that are non issues to us are having a Radio Station License and a Radio Telephone Operators License. Interesting to note, took the FCC only 5 days to send me my original copy. The DHS took 42 days to send my 2013/2014 decals. If anybody thinks the Mexicans are full of it, need only to get and utilize their eAPIS account with DHS. It make the healthcare website look like a work of genius. On the plus side, you don't have to fill out the stupid form 178 anymore on entry.

Email from CST today says that they are, of course, aware that the public notices are for commercial flights only and that CST and arinc are both surprised by statements from officials saying that they intend to apply the rule to private ops. IMO it's notable that arinc is surprised *since they are the ones that developed the system*.

I'm going back in late Jan. Hope this gets sorted out by then. Though I suppose $25 for the "get out of jail free" card, by filing APIS for my flight, isn't the end of the world.

And, to the Mexico haters who felt compelled to chime in. Thanks! It's because of people like you, staying home with your greenbacks, that people like me can enjoy such a fantastically affordable lifestyle in Mexico.

BTW, for people considering a trip. Baja and CST (and a smaller organization (http://www.alasdesanmiguel.com.mx/origening.htm) that is in my neighborhood) all have checklists of the stuff you need to get in and out of the US. Baja is focused on Mexico. CST supports Mexico and the Caribbean. Dogpilot mentioned some licenses and other items, these and more are covered in the checklists. A little homework is necessary, but flying internationally is a fun adventure!

jomac wrote:after our KTM pal got killed there during the last baja 1000, kind of lost my wanna to go there

Finally got around to looking that up. Tough accident. Sorry for your loss.

Nobody seems to be aware of any change for private in MMHO, but that may change with your port of entry. Where do you do your initial port of entry? Mexico is incredibly lax in enforcing their own regulations, we still, for example, do not have to file an ICAO flight plan when departing the US for Mexico, just upon return. So far Mexico has not enforced that requirement. Even so, they may never get around to enforcing this one as well, too much paperwork.

I started flying to Mexico and Central America in the mid-eighties. Always have been treated with courtesy and respect by the airport folks. Mexico has always been a bit of a Chinese fire drill, with five stops on landing to clear the paper. They have at least done away with the exchange rate charade, by requiring all payments in Pesos now and you can use a credit card. The only unpleasantness I have ever experienced flying internationally are coming back into the US, when a customs dog broke the door on my 185 and in Niece France, when they wouldn't let my Venezuelan co-pilot into the country (aircrew get 7 days, no visa, ICAO agreement, except with dick immigration officials in France).

Yes, as RW2 mentioned, if you hate Mexico and other climes foreign, do stay away. Americans have a poor enough reputation abroad. I already have to put up with a bunch of animosity for the spying our buds in the NSA have been perpetrating on our neighbors. Pilots in foreign countries are treated with great respect as professionals. While here in the US we are all, as least by the attitude of DHS, potential drug smugglers and terrorists.

dogpilot wrote:Nobody seems to be aware of any change for private in MMHO, but that may change with your port of entry. Where do you do your initial port of entry? Mexico is incredibly lax in enforcing their own regulations, we still, for example, do not have to file an ICAO flight plan when departing the US for Mexico, just upon return. So far Mexico has not enforced that requirement. Even so, they may never get around to enforcing this one as well, too much paperwork.

Yeah, point taken. I usually clear at Saltillo (MMIO), but this time will be coming from Key West and clearing in Cancun (MMUN).

Cancun was always very nice to clear at. Cozumel was a lot less busy, but everybody at the airport was super to deal with. Getting off it was a bit of a challenge, lots of tourists, so overcharging for taxis was rampant. Bring a long lens for your camera, great pics when flying the airway down the Cuban coast. The beaches look super from the air.

Actually took a photo of the border when I crossed it last week, because it looked so comical from the air, like it was actually painted on the ground (shadow from the "fence"). The other was of me being bored in the cockpit en-route between MMHO and KNGO with nobody to talk with.

dogpilot wrote:Cancun was always very nice to clear at. Cozumel was a lot less busy, but everybody at the airport was super to deal with. Getting off it was a bit of a challenge, lots of tourists, so overcharging for taxis was rampant. Bring a long lens for your camera, great pics when flying the airway down the Cuban coast. The beaches look super from the air.

I'll have the camera for sure. Photography is a longtime love of mine.

My intention is to clear at Cancun and immediately depart for Playa del Carmen or Tulum. I'd welcome your input if you think Cozumel would be a better option. We haven't arrived from the east before and I hadn't noticed it was an AOE.

dogpilot wrote:Actually took a photo of the border when I crossed it last week, because it looked so comical from the air, like it was actually painted on the ground (shadow from the "fence").

Wow, that is weird looking!

I couldn't tell you which is better now, just how it was. My info clearing at both is dated with my last work in Cozumel around 2000. Had to work a Bell 212 crash there for Costa Cruises. I never went to Playa del Carmen, it sounded nice. Did clear at Chetumal before, small, nice airport. Loved the restaurant on the seawall, "Paco's Tacos."

The border looked like it was out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon in the photo, the lighting was just right for the effect.

dogpilot wrote:I couldn't tell you which is better now, just how it was. My info clearing at both is dated with my last work in Cozumel around 2000.

Yeah, there have been some significant changes in aviation since then.

dogpilot wrote:Had to work a Bell 212 crash there for Costa Cruises. I never went to Playa del Carmen, it sounded nice.

When you were in the neighborhood Playa del Carmen was probably still a great place to go. It's experienced tons of growth since then and has changed from being a quieter getaway to a very small Cancun. We prefer the former, more laid-back, approach but have favorite places that we like to visit (e.g. Fusion is perhaps our favorite bar on the planet http://fusionhotelmexico.com/). Tulum today is closer to what Playa was 25 years ago.