The little guy, you and me, can definitely make a difference.

First, we can do it individually by letting our views be known directly to our Congressmen and Senators. And with the advent of email it's never been easier.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

http://www.house.gov/representatives/

In regards to this FAA BMI lunacy as pilots and constituents we have an advantage as our representatives are NOT being contacted by other constituents urging this be implemented - this is a rogue FAA play, so when we let our voices be heard our representatives will listen to us.

I can tell you from my own experience that just one person writing to just one congressman can trigger a congressional investigation whose outcome changes policy. My voice, your voice, our voice can be that powerful.

Second, for those who are not members of AOPA, I urge you to join. Then let them know your feelings on this issue, in strong terms. AOPA is our most powerful voice as pilots. The more members they have, the greater their influence on policy. They are a member organization and will fight for what their membership wants. Let them know what you want.

The NRA is a great example of the power a membership organization can wield. If it wasn't for the NRA the Second Amendment would have been repealed years ago. They've even managed to defeat the demands of this President and those in Congress who believe as he does.

Another great example is the TEA Party, like them or not. A grassroots effort, with no where near the organization or money of AOPA or the NRA - yet their members voices and votes were responsible for taking the House of Representatives away from the control of the Left, which put a huge monkey wrench into the transformation of the United States into a Socialist Dictatorship, at least temporarily restoring our checks and balances.

We can ensure that AOPA has influence with Aviation related issues that we care about, but only by supporting them, AND letting them know our feelings. If we can afford to fly an airplane we can damn sure afford to support and protect aviation for ourselves and future aviators.

Every elected official, every government employee, they work for us. WE are their boss. But if WE don't remind them about that daily, if they don't see or hear from us daily, they forget they work for us and start to think we work for them.

We talk and complain about it here, let's talk and complain about it directly with our Congressmen, Senators, and with AOPA. And let's do it today.

What do you expect?? The feds are just trying to mess up everyones life some more!!

I am glad I am a small guy right now, BMI about 20. Makes for great flying as I barely add anything to the weight of the plane!

Thought you might be interested in this. (Forgot to mention the EAA is another organization you should be a member of)

Dear Mr. Whittemore,

Thank you for writing us with your concerns. We are already very
involved in countering the proposed policy, and we have sent a letter
(http://www.eaa.org/news/2013/2013-11-20_eaa-medical-council-pans-faa-sleep-apnea-testing-proposal.asp)
to the FAA administrator and have noted
yesterday's introduction of a bill in Congress that would require the
FAA to provide a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, complete with
justification and cost/benefit analysis, for sweeping regulation like
this.
(http://www.eaa.org/news/2013/2013-11-21_house-bill-would-require-formal-rulemaking-before-enacting-apnea-policy.asp)
We agree with you that the FAA is overstepping its bounds and trying to
create rules that are not based on a history of incidents. We are
actively engaged in fighting these rules.
If you have addition comments or concerns, I would be more than happy to
speak with you. I am best reached on my direct office line, listed
below.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving,

Jonathan Harger, EAA 63226
Government Advocacy Specialist
EAA- The Spirit of Aviation

Phone: 920.426.6103
Fax: 920.426.4885

http://www.eaa.org

This is something everyone should be concerned with. Just because this particular issue doesn't apply to you because you're in good shape, doesn't mean the next particular issue won't apply to you. We don't need to the government getting any more involved in our personal health issues.

I’m also on special issuance for sleep apnea. Once I got diagnosed and started the CPAP therapy, I disclosed it because I didn’t want to fly uninsured or worry about getting my license revoked if I had an incident because I failed to disclose it to the FAA. Jumping through the hoops to get the special issuance in the first instance was pretty intense, and it’s not much fun having the threat of losing my medical hanging over my head if I don’t keep up with the CPAP therapy.

Many people find CPAP therapy hard to tolerate, and many either abandon it or do not use it regularly. The threat of losing my medical is a powerful incentive to stick with CPAP therapy and to use it consistently. It’s also good incentive to keep my weight down, because that also helps. (My BMI has ranged between 25 and 28—presently 225 lbs. and 6’3”).

Having air forced into my lungs doesn’t feel very good during those moments when I wake at night, but I sleep much better and much deeper when I am sleeping than when I don’t use the CPAP. I wake rested and ready to go. Contrast that with years of feeling like death warmed over and dragging myself out of bed every morning.

Fatigue definitely impacts how much workload I can handle. I am most likely to become task-saturated and to make mistakes when I am tired.

I doubt whether it is possible to figure out how many accidents are caused by sleep apnea, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t a significant number. “Pilot error due to fatigue” is hard to pinpoint unless the pilot survives and tells the truth about how well rested (or not) he was beforehand. Sure, there are other causes of pilot error (lack of training/experience and stupidity come to mind), but those aren’t the ones where everyone says afterwards “he was such a good pilot.” I suspect that the answer in a lot of these cases is that the pilot was tired, something unexpected came up, and he either didn't notice it or couldn't handle it.

Whenever I’m riding in someone else’s car, taxi, bus or airplane, I want the driver or pilot to be well-rested. At what point should that become the government’s business? The spectrum runs from self-certifying sport pilots to part 121 air carriers. There have been hours and rest rules for part 121 forever. Is anyone here going to argue that it doesn't matter whether the PIC of a 777 actually slept last night, just as long as he wasn't in the cockpit?

Even though I am not a fan of the third class medical for private pilots, and I didn’t need prompting from the government to get a sleep test or to start CPAP therapy, I have to admit that keeping my medical has been a powerful incentive for me to stick with CPAP therapy. That has made my life better overall, and has made me a safer pilot. YMMV.

My .02.

CAVU

CAVU, good on you for getting treatment that improved your life, and for reporting that which you believe would affect your ability to fly safely without treatment. I can't even imagine how hard that was. I'm glad you are still flying with us, and certainly encourage anyone experiencing chronic fatigue to see their doctor.

My problem with this issue is how the FAA is approaching this, regulating something that "might be happening". It is no different then the FAA requiring red headed pilots receive anger management testing to find those that might go ballistic when cut off in the pattern. Or testing short first officers for Napoleon complex because they might have authority issues with a tall captain. Or testing women pilots during their period because they might make irrational emotional decisions in a stressful situation. I'm not very articulate, these were the best examples I could come up with, but I hope they illustrate the point I'm trying to make.

Of much greater concern to me then how fat a pilot is, would be why are pilots landing thousands of feet short of the touchdown point? And why are they landing at the wrong airport? Something that actually "is happening".

My two cents, as it were. Appreciate this discussion.

I commend the people on here that have recognized or have been alerted to a potential issue with a sleep issue and have gotten treatment. However, I agree with many of the posts on this topic. I am 6'05" and 250 lbs and while not yet close to the BMI number the FAA has proposed, I see the writing on the wall for the near future. When will it stop? In order for me to fall into the normal BMI range I need to weigh around 208 lbs, a figure that I haven't been near since early high school. When I graduated from college, I was playing college level basketball and weighed 230 pounds and was told I was too thin, but by the BMI rating I was overweight. I have since put on 20 pounds of muscle and have been turned down for life insurance based on my BMI! I am concerned that in the near future my flying job will be at risk because I workout too much. While I now work for a government agency, I think it is out of control. Just my $.02 cents, but frustrating nonetheless.

What Are the Effects of Sleep Apnea?

If left untreated, sleep apnea can result in a growing number of health problems, including:

High blood pressure
Stroke
Heart failure, irregular heart beats, and heart attacks
Diabetes
Depression
Worsening of ADHD
In addition, untreated sleep apnea may be responsible for poor performance in everyday activities, such as at work and school, motor vehicle crashes, and academic underachievement in children and adolescents.

This is copy/pasted from a solid health info web site:http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/sleep-apnea/sleep-apnea
Do a sleep apnea search if interested in more info.
(Comment:dental appliances are not effective in most cases-in spite of all the paid advertising)

Remember: Health is the most important possession you'll ever have

First it's BMI for pilots.Next is BMI for Walmart shoppers

My BMI is 22 but I still think I may have a touch of sleep apnea. I don't like the rule having not gone through the normal proposal and review process but it's probably not a bad deal.

EB

Emory Bored wrote: but it's probably not a bad deal.

I think it's a step in the wrong direction. 3rd class medical certificate shouldn't be a way to enforce non-critical-to-flight medical issues. Maybe a good will "go see a specialist because I want you to live a long life" gesture from the AME, but for us private pilot barnstormers it seems a little heavy handed and the opposite of what I personally would like to see: self certification for part 91 flight under 3000 lbs.

Agreed Zzz. I'm just saying it might be a good idea for me to check in with a sleep specialist.

Zzz wrote:

Emory Bored wrote: but it's probably not a bad deal.

I think it's a step in the wrong direction. 3rd class medical certificate shouldn't be a way to enforce non-critical-to-flight medical issues. Maybe a good will "go see a specialist because I want you to live a long life" gesture from the AME, but for us private pilot barnstormers it seems a little heavy handed and the opposite of what I personally would like to see: self certification for part 91 flight under 3000 lbs.

This is where I kind of ended up. Sleep apnea is a bad deal. BMI as a measurement of obesity isn't terribly reliable *but* 90% of people with BMI 40+ have sleep apnea. The FAA isn't telling anyone they are fat, they are saying that BMI 40+ people almost always have sleep apnea and lack of rest causes accidents. Dr. Bruce has been writing about this on the red board and substantially modified my knee-jerk reaction that the whole thing was bureaucratic overreach.

That said, Zane wisely separated third class from others. Just like I support strengthening work rules to allow commercial pilots to get adequate rest, I support BMI 40+ commercial pilots getting CPAP and, thus, their first real rest in years. But I think the line should be drawn between commercial and non-commercial ops. So, IMO, this test shouldn't be mandatory for third class medicals, but - having read Dr. Bruces comments as well as those of sleep apnea patients - encourage people to get tested anyway for their healths sake.

Indirectly related....?
Engineer on metro north train was falling asleep heading into curve at excessive speed to cause fatal train accident.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/03/me ... rash-ntsb/

Littlecub wrote:Indirectly related....?

Pretty directly related. The FAA has made statements acknowledging that sleep apnea testing already exists in trucking and railroads. They didn't invent the idea from whole cloth.

Bump

That's why I gave the FAA-Medical Squad the big finger and went LS. Too many pitfalls with very little benefit for me.

This issue is the poster child for intrusive government. It saddens me greatly when people don't see this for what it is.

rw2 wrote:

Littlecub wrote:Indirectly related....?

Pretty directly related. The FAA has made statements acknowledging that sleep apnea testing already exists in trucking and railroads. They didn't invent the idea from whole cloth.

And do they also make the guys that drive trains and trucks as a hobby get tested for SA as well? This is government intrusion that we don't need.

Not sure if this new faa rule affects 3rd class or 2nd and first class. Understand that CDL for commercial truck drivers or train engineers are covered by this new BMI. Rule

The government is now studying Grizzly Bear obesity. WTF?
So, no one has told them about WALMART?
Will they pay for their CPAP during hibernation??
Did someone notice the neck size was larger than 17"?

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/12/1 ... latestnews