z3skybolt wrote:

qmdv wrote:Love how a thread strays. Anybody for a fly in Rock Chuck shoot.

Please,

Don't take my comment as anything other than my personal emotion. I've killed varmits all of my life. Destructive ones as I am sure the Rock Chuck is. I am an old farm boy. I've seen what Gophers, Ground Hogs, Beavers....even Moles, Racoons,Possums and squirrels can do to crops and pastures.. Hell I shot 38 squirrels this summer who were trying to eat the sweet corn in my garden. Killed a deer last year that was destroying my garden. Fully understand the necessity of controlling the population of Coyotes, Wolves, Cougars, bear etc. So I don't have an issue with those who hunt them out of necessity or even for sport.

It is just me I know. But never.... never have I found pleasure or felt pride in the taking of life.....any life: no matter the necessity.

Bob

Do you get this choked up stepping on a roach or pulling a tic of your dog and smashing it.

Tim

Coyote Ugly wrote:Not too wild about a really dark overcast night, where ya can't see the horizon and have to rely on instruments. Regular ol starry night, tho, or moonlight night... love it.

Oh yeah, or with the aurora in full force.... Unbelievable. Worth every bit of risk.

And, how does it really differ from IMC with low ceilings. Not a whole lot of choices either. No one does single-engine IFR?

Gump

**delete**

Glidergeek wrote:

qmdv wrote:Is it just me. I am scared shitless to fly at night over the High Sierra or the Rocky Mountains. Or even the mountains that surround me. What do you guys think about that?

Tim

You puss

I used to do a lot of night & night under the hood until I lost oil pressure over a dry lake bed during the day in my last plane a 170. Night over mountains is risky, I'll fly over the desert to Las Vegas, Pheonix or up the Owens at night but crossing high mountains and continuous terrain you really have to have a good reason.

I think it is 10* right.....right? private joke

Yeah,

The question was limited to flying over the mountains at night. Of course it has spead to day VFR and IMC conditions. Rightfully so the concerns are largely limited to single engine airplanes under various conditions.

It is all about assessing the risk factor. If the baby needs emergency medical care all of us would fly night, IFR over the Cascades. But when we have choices it becomes another matter. Of course there are the bush pilots who just go out and do it no matter what. That is their calling in life and I applaud their courage which is second to none. For the rest of us...it is different.

I have flown single engine airplanes 20 or 30 miles off shore over the Great Lakes. Didn't scare me nearly as bad as night over mountains. Something about that water that probably is just as dangerous....but it seems less threatening. Even so....I am not going very far off shore again in a single.

I won't fly IFR in my Maule unless the bases below me are 1,000 ft. or so. And although I have done it.....I don't like single engine IFR at night unless I am over pretty decent countryside. The charity for which I volunteer operates a C-206, a Seneca 2, Seneca 3 and a Chieftain. I quit flying the 206 precisely because we operate it day or night IFR no matter the ceiling is beneath the wings. Call me a coward....guess that it fits. Maybe I just feel that my luck bag is about empty.

Most of my general aviation flying has been in the midwest where there are usually good emergency landing spots. I don't think that I would have enjoyed the same amount of flying all those years over mountainous areas. I've flown hundreds of hours of night time in single engine airplanes when the weather was good and the terrian favorable. Like others have said....night flying is great I see it as almost spiritual. But the conditions have to be right for me.

Now...I've taken the Maule to Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Nevada, Colorado, Utah etc. and once on a 14,300 mile trip around the nation's external borders. I have flown and will fly again into areas where one is just "dead" if the engine quits. But I do it just a few hours now and then. Consider it an adventure. That is a calculated risk, hoping that limited exposure will keep the odds in my favor.

But once again.....no night flying over the mountains for me, except in a dire emergency.

Have fun. Live long and prosper.

bob

When I started my flight training I had big ideas about being able to fly over the Cascades to Seattle from Chelan, spend the day in the big city and fly home in the dark. After the night flight portion of my training, I don't think so. Not at least until I have better stuff and much more time under my belt.
I take my check ride next week and was for a small minute considering flying to Spokane for a concert and then home afterwards, It is an easy 1:20 flight. But, I decided I will either drive the 4 hours each way, or if I do fly, get a hotel and leave in the AM. At least if I stay over I can have an adult beverage before seeing Hank III.

I really want to loose my fear of night flight but it is hard to do when your home airport is at 1260' and surrounded with rock walls that extend up to about 3300'. Even my instructor, who is a CFII and likes flying at night, does not like for us to do touch and goes for training at night in Chelan. We go to Wenatchee or Waterville where there are not so mant things to run into. The new Garmin with synthetic vision seems like it would add to my situational awarness and make me feel a lot better about all the rocks.

Do any one you guys fly over HYW 2 between eastern WA and the Puget Sound area? How is that in the dark?

z3skybolt wrote:Yeah,

. and once on a 14,300 mile trip around the nation's external borders. bob

Now I want to do that.

Tim

I've had what would be 3 "minor" failures in the daylight happen on dark nights. That bumps the event rating up a few notches to say the least!

One was an alternator between Nampa and Winnemucca that I didn't catch in time. Drained the battery and the radios wouldn't transmit; I didn't have enough fuel to reasonably make Reno, the only airport that keeps the runway lights on (and a TRSA, at that time to boot!). It was before GPS, too. That really sucked. Someone on the ground in Winnemucca must have heard me circling and turned the lights on. They saved my bacon that night. I was about 20 minutes from an I-80 landing between the street lights! Thank you, whoever that was!

Another dark night, a generator failed between Salmon, ID and Whitehall, MT. Again not enough radio left for PCL. It was dark when I got to the grass runway but could just make it out enough to set down. Lots of deer normally on that strip so I got lucky.

The third one was a failed AP between Ely and Elko on a way too dark night to be VFR over that part of the world. A good scan caught it in time and some very distant ranch lights to aim for kept it in the air.

Scary stuff. But hey with a full moon, clear night, and some snow on the ground - what the hell, it is almost mystical to be up there and roads are easy to see.

I'm not sure there is a lot of difference between single engine IFR and single engine night over high terrain. With a single the threat is not usually loss of power (or as mentioned by Blackrock) but by the loss of other systems.

Many years ago I was flying IFR from BLI to KTN in my 185 and lost the voltage regulator, battery dies, radios die, etc. Ended up doing a really scary solid IFR blind letdown. Broke out at around 1500 feet and made it to Port Hardy. I trust my engine, its the other things that worry me.

It doesn't matter if you have one engine or four engines if you are doing a night approach into a mountainous area. The bottom line is you just can't see the darn mountains.

I have done many night approaches into Bagram, Kabul and Kandahar over the past few years in heavy four engine airplanes. It doesn't feel any better than in a single.

delete

qmdv wrote:

z3skybolt wrote:Yeah,

. and once on a 14,300 mile trip around the nation's external borders. bob

Now I want to do that.

Tim

Tim,

Check your personal messages.

Bob

Amen on the engine usually being the least of your worries on a dark night, or in IMC. It's always something electric or vacuum that goes FUBAR.

That's why my flight bag, even though there's not much in it, always has a backup means to navigate and communicate. And a shitload of AA batteries. Been lots of approaches made over the years to some pretty tight minimums using my KX-99 or Garmin 89.

Gump

OregonMaule wrote:

Glidergeek wrote:

qmdv wrote:Is it just me. I am scared shitless to fly at night over the High Sierra or the Rocky Mountains. Or even the mountains that surround me. What do you guys think about that?

Tim

You puss

I used to do a lot of night & night under the hood until I lost oil pressure over a dry lake bed during the day in my last plane a 170. Night over mountains is risky, I'll fly over the desert to Las Vegas, Pheonix or up the Owens at night but crossing high mountains and continuous terrain you really have to have a good reason.

I think it is 10* right.....right? private joke

Is that it over there? no no it's over there by those yellow lights isn't it? ya no

I lost the left/critical engine low over terrain higher than the single single service ceiling in the middle of a night darker than the inside of a cow. Off airport landing in a 310 at night will leave an impression on a guy. I think having one live engine in times like that temps a guy to do things that are harder to survive than an engine out over the mountains in a single. Unscheduled landing off airport at night is not for the faint of heart.

I don't and probably wouldn't in much less than a King Air with an autopilot instrument current. While a manageable risk, yes, I think you are really decreasing your options for survival in the event of multiple types of failures or mistakes on the pilot's part. With a little planning I find that I really have no reason to either.
You may be able to see the roads on moonlit night but you still can't see the powerlines cris-crossing them.

lowflyin'G3 wrote:I don't and probably wouldn't in much less than a King Air with an autopilot instrument current. While a manageable risk, yes, I think you are really decreasing your options for survival in the event of multiple types of failures or mistakes on the pilot's part. With a little planning I find that I really have no reason to either.
You may be able to see the roads on moonlit night but you still can't see the powerlines cris-crossing them.

How about crop dusting at night?

qmdv wrote:

z3skybolt wrote:Yeah,

. and once on a 14,300 mile trip around the nation's external borders. bob

Now I want to do that.

Tim

That would be very cool to do. Someday I'm going to fly around or zigzag my way around the U.S.A.. More than likely that will be my retirement gift to myself.

Night ag work is a whole other world. It is of course more dangerous than spraying during the day. That said, it is a bit different than flying distances over mountainous terrain at night.
Most of the work is performed within 15 to 20 miles of your home base. The pilots have usually flown that area during the day and have more likely than not worked a particular area for years thus becoming familiar with every little nook and cranny there is to know. Most companies use a field spotter to travel around ahead of the airplane to help with wind calls, reminding of obstructions, etc. Barring an electrical failure the work lights on the airplane provide about a 1/4 of a mile visibility about 100-150 wide, much more than the average landing light. Everything that we do during the day they do at night, working under wires, etc.
That said, I have a friend that after something like 25,000 hours at night in the same area got distracted with a GPS in the cockpit and slammed into the side of a mountain on a moonless night working a field he had probably worked a 100 times over the last 30 years. He knew that mountain was there. Believe it or not he lived, goes to show the crash worthiness of our purpose-built aircraft. His legs were blown apart and he had to sit there for about 4 hours before they found him, no field spotter on this night. About 10 months later he put out his first load and is working again albeit a bit slower getting in and out of the plane.

58Skylane wrote:

qmdv wrote:

z3skybolt wrote:Yeah,

. and once on a 14,300 mile trip around the nation's external borders. bob

Now I want to do that.

Tim

That would be very cool to do. Someday I'm going to fly around or zigzag my way around the U.S.A.. More than likely that will be my retirement gift to myself.

You going to have an engine by then. I'm spending part of my retirement fund on mine.

I'm just going to fix it for now. But, I'm going to wait till I get my tax refund back in Feb-March 2012 (if I get any back ).

Bummer to hear about yours! But at least it should be good for a long time. And as much as you fly, I would think that new motor should stay healthy and reliable