I am a strong proponent of the greater safety of the energy management turn in any contact, or non-IFR, flight regime. Low level, or contour, flying at a certain altitude can be done somewhat safely using level turns. This is because, even at fifty feet, some vertical space is available for gravity thrust in the turn should the airplane start shaking near an accelerated stall. Also, we are not likely to put a wing down into terrain or obstacles. Also, we can level the wing and turn wide in the greater than NOE horizontal space. Still, this is hard on the back and on the aircraft and some of us just don't like a lot of load factor in our turns.

NOE, or nape of the earth, is different. We are as close to terrain as possible. We are in low ground effect. We have no vertical space and limited horizontal space to work with. We cannot safely make a level turn. We would put the down wing into a wire or terrain. Our safest option is to stay ahead of the airplane, anticipate the turn in the river or pipeline, zoom up to create vertical space for the down wing and slow down to decrease the radius of the turn, turn steeply using lots of rudder to get the nose pointed quickly at the new target (river or line going in the new direction,) allow the nose to go down onto the target naturally (don't pull back on the stick in the turn,) and level the wing before re-entering ground effect (NOE.)

What if we are behind the aircraft or the turn in the river or pipeline is gentle? We can use the wings level rudder turn in ground effect.

What if we are a strong opponent of the energy management turn and of the wings level rudder turn or we just don't want to learn or use them? What are our options when encountering a tight turn in the river or pipeline? We can zoom up using cruise speed kinetic energy to hopefully out climb wires, trees, and terrain. If we go ahead and attempt the turn, we will have to do a modified energy management turn to make some vertical space for the down wing. However, to stay in the right of way or between the trees and terrain in the river (we are still at cruise speed,) we will have to turn without much vertical space to create gravity thrust in the turn. Load factor will become so prevalent that we may have to level the wing to prevent mush into the river. Now we are facing the last life saving solution: Controlled Flight Into Terrain.

Even with the excellent photography in the videos, it is hard to tell the difference between NOE and Low Level. Except for the wake evidence from the big tires in the river.

I honestly try, but I don't think I will every quite fully comprehend.

When you come south for the winter, come by 2H2 and see me. It will take five minutes to teach you and you will never turn level (non-IMC) again.

contactflying wrote:When you come south for the winter, come by 2H2 and see me. It will take five minutes to teach you and you will never turn level (non-IMC) again.

I thought you want to turn wings level? Or us that just in ground effect?

He's talking about an energy management turn. Here he means turn at a level altitude.

Yes. Wings level rudder turns work well, up to about fifteen degrees of turn at a yaw, in low ground effect. With more than fifteen degrees of turn needed, to get the nose on target in the new direction, the energy management turn is more comfortable and safer. When up a little out of ground effect, the energy management turn is the safest turn. Much safer than high load factor level turns.

I flew about twelve thousand hours of pipeline patrol at mostly 200' AGL but lower when I needed a close look at something. That was about twenty five hours and about 500 energy management turns to do a 3500 mile loop each week. Spraying the twenty years prior involved mostly P turns or an energy management turn to fall off the target (next crop swath 50' upwind) downwind followed by a much steeper and all the way back around energy management turn to get the nose aligned with that next swath before the down wing hit a wire or terrain. Except for instrument training, I haven't made a level turn in over fifty years.

To be effective the wings level climb portion of the energy management turn must be made prior to the beginning of the turn. This requires not only being ahead of the airplane with our eyes outside constantly, but also it must be habit. We can't wait until the emergency is present and we are about to hit something and need a tighter turn to miss and load factor is building and now the only way to live is to level the wing and accept CFIT.

The only way to make the energy management turn habit is to use it. How many level turns have you made? You need many iterations of making energy management turns to extinguish that poor maneuvering flight habit. After just a few energy management turns, it will feel very comfortable. Now more, many more, are needed to indoctrinate it. From an instructional point of view, it is tremendously helpful to teach safe maneuvering flight techniques first. Yes, before solo. They are not hard at all. Just different.

CamTom12 wrote:He's talking about an energy management turn. Here he means turn at a level altitude.

Ok. Makes sense. Phraseology threw me off.

You guys need to come by 2H2 and fly with me. I've done contact maneuvering flight so long I can't think normal. Wings level rudder turns are used when in ground effect for small turns. Level turns are used to make standard rate (turn needle on the dog house) instrument turns. In contact maneuvering flight, level turns are dangerous because they put a wing down close to the ground and they create load factor. When we need to make hard, minimum radius turns to miss terrain, we need to be able to allow the nose to go down naturally. We can run straight in ground effect but we need to zoom up to clear the wing, slow down, and to be able to allow the nose to go down in the turn.

It works really, really well. Normal turns down low work really, really poorly. Nobody is going to intentionally put a wing into the ground, wire, tree, or river. They are going to pull up into a climbing turn. When that climbing turn needs to be really tight to miss something, we have a problem.

I think I'll take you up on that, didn't realize we were that close, only about 20 min flight from home base KEOS, (Neosho) I've read your book, and would be great to get some hands on experience.

I'll fly a stretch of the Colorado River about 20 miles long that is almost entirely bends, makes for a great stick and rudder exercise if I'm a little rusty. Making level turns, I felt like I was stressing my 70 yr old airframe trying to keep it between the river banks the entire time. After reading your book and using energy management turns, keeping the turns tight is much easier and feels like it's what the plane wants to do. Very natural.

CenterHillAg,

Thanks for the critique. Would it sound government if I said, "I'm here to help"?

jmurtap or anybody,

Come over anytime. I am completely retired, they emergency suspended my paper because I couldn't pass a medical, and I work honestly for food.

contact

IN my opinion (and we all know about those) there are only two reasons to fly NOE:

1. You're getting shot at.

2. You're being paid well to do so.

There are lots of good reasons not to fly that low. But, if you want to increase my insurance premiums, I can't stop you. Drawn had something to say about this sort of flying.

MTV

MTV,

You are absolutely right. I have done it for both of those reasons. I have also taught it to those doing the same. For those doing it for the wrong reasons, I would rather teach them the right way than not. Young guys with families shouldn't do it, but they do.

I appreciate your comments and I think others do as well.

contact

mtv wrote:IN my opinion (and we all know about those) there are only two reasons to fly NOE:

1. You're getting shot at.

2. You're being paid well to do so.

There are lots of good reasons not to fly that low. But, if you want to increase my insurance premiums, I can't stop you. Drawn had something to say about this sort of flying.

MTV

Can't say I disagree with you, MTV. At the same time, it reminds me of a favorite joke of mine:

Fellow goes to see the doc for his checkup. After reviewing all the test results, he says, "doc, I know it's not really a fair question, but if you had to guess, how long do you think I have? I mean just generally speaking..."

Doc asks, "How's your diet?"

Guy says, "I'm a vegan. No steak, no dessert, no burgers, nothing but salad."

Doc asks, "Do you drink?"

The guy says, "Nope. Never touch a drop."

Doc asks, "Do you chase wild women, drive fast cars, or fly NOE?"

Guy says, "Nope, none of that doc. So how long do you think I have, based on what you know about me?"

Doc says, "Why the hell do you care?"

I get what you're saying. I do. But I also understand that others, including myself, might be wired differently.

Ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for.

Cheers. [emoji41]

Ranch Pilot,

What you are doing out is pretty safe. I expect you high recon for wires and hairpin turns first. You aren't turning low enough to put a wing in the ground and you aren't turning tight enough to cause accelerated stall. We can avoid those things or learn techniques to mitigate them. I have found that either wings level rudder turns or energy management turns mitigate these problems.

As instructors we have to teach responsibility even with extremely exposing techniques. One of my spray students became a big Ag operator with a lot of pilots. A pilot and loader had an accident where the loader was hit by the prop. He found himself in need of a safety officer and I ended my retirement to go back to work for him. I continued in that job until I found out that he was taking friends under wires in his Cessna 180. After talking to him I found out he had no intention of quitting so I quit. I had taught him to fly under wires, but that was intended for work, not play.

My Dad often told me that when boys are having fun, I should look around. Something was going to happen.

Have fun out there and take great pictures. Keep the sticky side down.

contact

I quit flying under wires for the same reason. Risk too high for too little reward. I still know how if I need to, but these days I try to focus on never putting myself in a situation where I need to. Exercising good judgment keeps one from having to rely on one's mediocre skills.

As for the risk/reward question we all struggle with, I have survived stuff I shouldn't have, both in airplanes and otherwise. I have also lost good friends and watched people die when they were doing all the right things, both in airplanes and otherwise. It's a very personal decision that takes the right combination of confidence to trust in your own judgment, while being humble enough to be open to the good advice other better, smarter teachers are willing to share. I try not to have a disproportionate amount of confidence relative to my skill set or level of knowledge--that's usually when I get in trouble.

One my favorite sayings: "Overconfidence...the feeling you have right before you realize what is actually going on."

Sorry for the meanderings. Now back to regularly scheduled programming.