http://www.adn.com/news/environment/sto ... 2642c.html


They're coming...........
Cover thy tail feathers

This was in the Daily Communist this morning. God, It makes my stomach lurch.

A place for quite thoughts , note the paid vacations too. This screams Evergreen State.

YellowMaule, you are lucky you live in Alaska because the enviro nazis aren’t there in full force...yet. Unless you are a hiker, they want you gone! That is unless one of the dumb *sses gets lost or hurt, then it's bring in the quad, truck, chopper, etc. They are the biggest bunch of hypocrites I can think of. They preach tolerance, sensitivity, diversity, love, and peace. Do the enviro whacos honor tolerance, sensitivity, diversity, love, and peace when it comes to the wants and needs of other users of public lands? NO!. It is hikers only, everybody else leave. They have the political power to get laws passed that screw everybody that doesn't agree with their form of recreation. If you have anything to loose you don't dare get caught because the government will take it all to pay the fines, which are always huge. They make me sick. Keep emailing, calling, and voting for politicians who will protect the rights of all users of public land, not just hikers. Regards

Every time some do-gooder pinhead gets a little money and has a chip on his/her shoulder they need to validate themselves with some made-up title that all of the other pinheads nod at with approval; "ah, yes, an Accoustic Ecologist, a very special and important sector of the movement." What the !%&# is an acoustic ecologist? Sounds to me like somebody that has too much time, money and influence with some hack newspaper who is annoyed with airplane noise.

Funny that the Anchorage Daily News should publish an article against airplanes, the very vehicle that made Alaska habitable in the 20th century.

"Quiet is going extinct"? Then the pinheads should shup up.

Google "Hidden Splendor" and find all of the anti-aircraft groups that are trying to shut down the airstrip.

It's not that they are so powerful, it's that they have the time and funding (State & Federal salaries) to keep going and they are persistent. These are very focused people and are driving by a "Calling". They have few of the distractions such as trying to make a payroll, to occupy their time.
Voting helps, a lot but that's not where it ends. We have to be equally persistent in our objectives.
I have been involved with the Environmental, permitting aspects of construction for the past 15 years. Specifically hydraulics, Engineering septics and erosion control. Washington is especially bad for Regulations. It has always amazed me that without one exception, every self-proclaimed Enviromentalist I have worked for, has opted for not the enviromentally friendly approach to building and site development when it meant that it would cost them more out of their own pocket. I would even call them on it.
As long as we continue to be an entitlement society with the Government being populated by the spineless, we will always have this faction to contend with. Further more, we have lost all site of common sense. There are so many subjects to which this theme is applicable. Makes one want to just find a Quiet Place and bury one's head....
NOT!

A few other thoughts on this;

They only way to win someone over is to see things from the other sides perspective. With aviation, there are relatively few of us compared to the overall population. The biggest contrast on this particular subject is that the majority population lives in an Urban or suburban location and we become acclimated to the constant white noise of civilization. When people make the effort to get out, the contrast is striking for them. I know it is for me and I revel in it. I have always sought out the unknown and new. That having been said, aviation is just as contrary to most people. I make it a point to introduce as many people as I can to what I love. I have only had a couple of people that really didn’t care for it and I feel that it wasn’t necessarily the experience that did not appeal but the lack of control.
The majority of private money funding these groups (Audobon Society, Sierra Club and the associated programs) comes from very wealthy estates of individuals that have for one reason or another felt a need to give back to the general populace. Maybe to assuage their feelings of guilt or caving in to those who dispute their right to make a fortune in whatever venue they did. Note the number of Estates and Family Foundations that have become major Democrat powerhouses.
Back to seeing things from another’s perspective; Noise pollution (That’s what they label it right?) is an intangible and very subjective. It’s not like Mining or oil accidents that leave some sort of evidence after the fact, sometimes for many years. You hear it and it’s usually gone in a minute or so. To a Pilot’s ear, we crane our neck to see what type of plane. The animals don’t seem to care much and if so, settle back down almost immediately. That fact is lost on these Acoustic Environmentalists. OK, let’s provide a compromise. Green Tourism is getting very big here as we have what so many are either ignorant about or long for but are afraid of the commitment to they view as a hardship. They love coming for a visit, experiencing it and going home. Good for them. Alaska now counts Tourism as it’s fourth largest source of income and that’s good, it gets the Politician’s attention. We need to see more of the fly in and drop off type of programs that will open the eyes of the ignorant as to the benefit of small aircraft and the minimal impact they actually have. Besides, someone who is having some trouble or discomfort in the woods and is dependant on the arrival of a plane to pick them up will never criticize the faint sound of a small plane coming up the valley to retrieve them!
I know, the usual arguments will surface for doing this sort of operation, Insurance, liability, etc. but these people have money to spare and properly promoted to the masses, the word will spread. Hey, maybe a subsidy from AOPA or other group that has a vested interest in keeping the peace? Just a thought, there is always a solution and while I really dislike people who curb my rights, the effort to find a solution will have unending benefits for all. Who knows, maybe a few bucks too.

Just the rambling of a grounded flier on a snowy morning.

Good argument, YELLOWMAULE. It's an all too common position of the right wing conservatives to categorically oppose pro-environmental action, but without some measure of conservation of our lands, what will our kids enjoy? Most of us have a skewed perception because the only time we take notice is when a headline catches our eye that has to do with something that interests us, like aviation. So, I implore everyone to look at each environmental conservation action individually, because some are valid and sensible, while others are not.

I will agree that Hempton represents a somewhat obscure interest, but I also think that most people, enthusiasts of gasoline-burning playtoys or not, are not that gullible, and would feel that his acoustic ecology argument is a little extreme. But, less extreme laws have been drafted and ushered in with less fanfare.

I think it's good that this issue is being aired out, because it will attract an otherwise clueless contingent of opponents -- us, the pilots, snowmobilers, dirt bikers, etc. An interest group like like AOPA or the Alaska Airman's Association need to be standing by to fight laws like this when they go too far, and attempt to turn National Parks into no-fly zones. It's bullshit. The National Park Service's purpose is to preserve and manage the parks, so we can't expect them to take a very unbiased, higher level view of the matter can we?

Outdoor recreation is more popular than ever. More americans are venturing further out into public lands than ever before to fish, climb, ski, glide, ride, camp, whatever. There is going to be a use and management issue, there is no avoiding it, even it the apparent endless unpopulated region of AK. We do want these lands and parks to be as untread as possible for our kids, but not at the cost of not being able to use them at all.

Fossil fuel is not forever, and our population continues to grow. Responsible management is necessary to preserve all that beauty. I just don't see a noise pollution prevention campaign making it that far. This has been my environmental statement for the day. Sorry it's so long.

Maulewaco, it's probably best for everyone if you attack the enemy's relevant actions and intentions rather that what you believe his sexual orientation to be. It really makes you sound daft, and I don't want my fellow pilots to appear daft.

This is a subject that is near and dear to what I am. I consider myself an environmentalist. I don’t think anyone from the Sierra club would though. Many years ago I was a dues paying member to some environmental groups, until I realized they were for hiking only. Don’t get me wrong, I like to hike also, but there is no substitute for horsepower. The enviro nazis will use any tactics to achieve their goal of total control of public land. It doesn’t matter how despicable the tactics are; they have no since of fairness. I think the reason is, this is akin to their jihad. They have been quite successful at infiltrating all levels of the USFS and BLM. This means enviro nazi commiecrats making administrative rules and gating more roads. There are more Wildernesses in our country than a person can hike in a lifetime. Why do these fanatics want it all? Two words “Holy War” I pay due to the AOPA, AMA, NRA and The Blue Ribbon Coalition. I encourage everyone I know to join organizations that will help protect our rights to use public land and airspace. Because these groups don’t have the political clout of the enviro nazis we are forced to compromise. And we keep getting our *sses kicked. Further more when the enviro nazis don’t get there way, then they file law suits. They keep getting more Wilderness areas designated that don’t meet the 1964 Wilderness acts definition. As you know, no motors in the Wilderness, with a few exceptions in the lower 48, I don’t know about Alaska. When the time comes, that we are regulated to the point we can’t enjoy what we love to do on our public land, it might be unhealthy to be an enviro nazi in the wilderness. The wilderness can be a dangerous place don’t you know.

I just find it really ironic that this idiot got the first 10k to find this joint from a foundation that was built in part by money from aviation. Someone should call them and see if they can get him to give the 10k back. You would think that they wouldn't give money to an individual that would eventually want to do away with airplanes. I think Charles is rolling over in his grave!
We ought to find the eco-freak group opposed to the needless displacement of rocks due to the potential of soil erosion, and the eco-freak group opposed to needless refuse placement in natural settings and get them together due to the fact that if the jar was to fall on the one square inch of rock and smash, an innocent squirrel could cut his foot and bleed to death. Nice, we could get PETA involved too! Then sick all three of them on this panzy. Nothing I like better than a situation where one eco-freak group infringes on another eco-groups views.
Maybe an old growth will fall on this a^&*ole and pin his legs, then as I stand over him with the chainsaw I'll have to decline cutting it off of him due to the fact that I wouldn't want to break the silence, and in fact could he keep the screaming down because we're breaking 26 decibles. Poetic justice! It would at least even up the Lidbergh grant factor.
To think all these years people have been more concerned that I apply chemicals with my airplane. The real danger is the noise!

maulewaco wrote: Maybe a good sexual pilot place for flat landers would be gaypilot.com in the back of TAP

So you think the good folks at gaypilot.com would support a no-fly zone over national parks? They're pilots too, why would you group them with your enemies?

You and I are undoubtedly on the same side of the "noise pollution" issue, but I beg you to make sense and discuss the issues, rather than airing our your bigotry and prejustice. With an attitude like that, you do about as much good for pilots as Mark Foley does for the GOP.

Ok YellowMaule I hope you’re happy now. See what you started. The kids are squabbling over PC language about gay people. Maulewaco say you’re sorry and edit your post to the PC correct version. Not. I see both of you guys points of view. Let me remind you the 1st amendment to the US Constitution was to protect speech other people didn’t want to hear. This over rides PC In my arrogant opinion. IMAO the whole gay rights thing is bad for the country. I don’t care what you do in your closet, keep it there. To come full circle, back to the noise issue. This whole PC everything, tree hugging, no logging, fish saving, tear out the dams, global warming, save the whales, no nukes, blah, blah, blah crap is being pushed in the schools. Our kids are being brain washed every day they are at school starting at age 5. This save the earth thing started when I was in the 5th grade 1969 if I remember correctly and it has only gained steam since then. This PC environmentalism has no place in school. No wonder math, reading, and writing are not what they once were. The noise issue is just one of the many way the eco-freaks work the system to control the non-enviro infidels. As Rodney King said “Can’t we all jut get along” No

I'm sure at one point in history the people who had the foresight to designate national parks also took a lot of criticism for reducing very useful land to nothing more than a pretty terrarium. If Yellowstone and Yosemite had not been turned into preserves, it's unlikely they'd be the pristine natural wonders we see today. There'd be condos here and there, and more cul-de-sacs than you can shake a stick at.

Fuck political correctness. I don't care how Maulewaco feels about gay people, I simply asked for a little more focus on the real issue in lieu of his irrelevant name calling. No one ever wins a debate with name calling and insult, as good as it may feel. Hit me with some facts and some well formed arguments. I wouldn't send a representative of our aviation interest group to a debate knowing they were only armed with "yo mama" comebacks.

One again I'd like to ask that people not take an obtuse stance on environmental conservation, but rather give each issue its individual evaluation. There are wackos who think that every insect and rodent should be saved, but in the same breath demand that we destroy the last sample of smallpox known to man. It's not black and white.

This generation's popular attitude of protecting the earth for future generations has resulted in tougher regulations on huge corporations who spew waste and carcinogen-laden byproduct into our rivers and groundwater. THAT is not a fruitless fight that deserves the shortsighted insults from someone who categorically groups all pro-environment action together.

As I said before, I do think the acoustic ecology ideas are pretty weak, and I hope nothing comes of this guy's efforts to effect no-fly zones.

OK guys how about this.Not far from me there is a 2200 acre parcel that the Army took from the farmers during WWII.It was used as an ammo storage site.About five years ago Army moved out.Fish and Wildlife moved in.They posted it every 50 ft for the whole perimeter,NO TRESSPASSING.Nature Nazis moved in.They felled hundreds of trees to block trails[so the bad people who ride motorized vehicles could not get in].They told me it was too dangerous for the public to enter.Two grown men who dared ride their mountain bikes inside ended up in federal court.I walked in one Sunday morning[just practicing my civil disobedience]actually walking my dogs.Don't I come upon 3 people with 3 cars.Turns out they are watching hawks.They are freaked that not only am I Tresspassing but with dogs no less.There was a 1700 ft grass field that the Army used for parachute testing.Fish and Wildlife harrowed it up because the Kentucky Blue Grass it was seeded with was not indiginous to the area.I have had words with the people responsible for this area.They truly believe they are God's gift to the planet and the rest of us really don't matter.I think someday we might have to take all the land back.

Well Willy, isn't it Thomas Jefferson that said "God forbid we go 20 years without a rebellion..."

Seems like everybody has a different idea of what the best interest is for our lands. I can't say I see the good in doing anything that limits non-destructive responsible use. This Alaska noise pollution idea is really crazy.

I tend to agree with Quicksilver on most of his points, but sometimes this stuff becomes war, and unfairly restrictive policies are hard to repeal once they've been voted into law.

This thread is also turning out to be a little heated for our friendly board...it may have to be relegated to the "Hot Air" forum.

As a famous black guy said one time "can't we all just get along".

Anybody have a lat long on that square inch. I feel like being an A hole.

Tim

Quicksilver I Agree!

Zane Jefferson understood

qmdv If it was important to everyone

maulewaco airplanes and Tesla ok with me

maulewaco wrote:...I am real close to Idaho and the great flying it has. I am here to talk about flying. The AOPA and Flying magazine is for politics cross country navagators. I am going out to my shop and stare at my airplanes and turn on some Tesla.

Well, your unique wisdom is lot completely lost on me. I have to admit you're a funny old devil...although still young enough to listen to Tesla. Haha.

Maulewaco: Happy birthday! I wish I were 42 again. I find these form much more interesting when we talk about stuff we are passionate about. Obviously this is one of the better threads I have read. We don't all agree 100%, but the pilots here have more in common than we do differences. I respect people who stand up for what they believe. Lets all keep fighting for our freedoms. We can negotiate and try to reason with the people who want our freedoms. IMAO If that doesn’t work there aren’t too many problems that can’t be solved with the proper amount of firepower. Regards…Rob

I got a big laugh out of the "playing broke back mountain" comment, but have to agree that sexual orientation is not at issue here. Not too eager to hear about anyone's sweaty balls in any event....
Couple of years back,my sister-in-law was visiting me here in western Washington & commented that she was amazed at all the trees. Upon questioning, she told me that she had the idea (from the media) that those horrible loggers had cut all the trees down. I told her that yes, in some areas, they had....but they grew back. The ten or so sections immediately behind my home are privately-owned timberlands that're on their third harvest cycle. The ajoining national forest & DNR land is all on at least it's second. I showed her on a map that the central part of the Olympic peninsula is national park,which will never be logged. She is quite relieved that Washington is not gonna run out of trees after all. Kinda funny, except when you think about all the city folks who don't ever learn that the media hype is just that.
I met a pilot a few years back who lived in Wisconsin, he was out here in part to do some aerial photo work for the Audobon Society magazine. He told me that he wanted to get some photo's of logged-off areas, to show the devastation that clear-cutting left behind. I asked him if he was also gonna photograph some replanted areas & show how well the new trees were coming along. He told me that doing that would "minimalize the visual impact", and he was upset when I suggested that he was lying to the readers by his selective photo work.

Eric

Ok Eric, you obviously have not learned the PC lesson of the day yet. What's this? "no fat chicks allowed" I'll have you know I'm a fat (PC edit) trapped in a male body. LOL sorry SORRY!! I'll PC edit later . You guys rock.

RobBurson wrote: I'll have you know I'm a fat lesbian trapped in a male body.

You're trying to tell us that you drive a Subaru Forester?

Rob's just happy because he found some opinionated rednecks to make friends with