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NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

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NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

KIMA News, Yakima. First by KOMO Seattle.
"The coalition used side scan sonar, multibeam sonar and 3D instruments to find it. The wreckage was found 190 feet deep, officials said.

Officials said that due to the depth of the water and the current being three-to-five knots, they will need to use a remotely operated vehicle to recover the wreckage. The NTSB is continuing to work with other federal agencies and local companies to get a work class remotely operated vehicle for the mission."

The whole article https://kimatv.com/news/local/ntsb-anno ... h-wreckage
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

“We were able to get the engine up on Wednesday and today were able to get up 80 percent of the plane, almost the entirety,” said Jennifer Homendy, NTSB Chair

https://komonews.com/news/local/ntsb-na ... ety-board#
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

From the linked news story:

Schroeter Goldmark & Bender (SGB), which is representing two of the families who have lost loved ones in the crash, sent a statement to KOMO news:
"Words cannot adequately convey the depth of our grief." The Hilty Family said (on behalf of decedents Lauren Hilty, Ross Mickel, Remy Mickel, and Luca Mickel). "The past three weeks have been absolute torture as we continue to anxiously await the retrieval of the plane and, more importantly, our loved ones. Our hope is this retrieval process is successful, but we know this is just the first step on our long, painful road ahead.

Here's SGB's website:

https://sgb-law.com/

What a shame that an apparent ambulance chasing law firm is already poised to pounce,
before the cause of the accident is even known.
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

hotrod180 wrote:From the linked news story:

Schroeter Goldmark & Bender (SGB), which is representing two of the families who have lost loved ones in the crash, sent a statement to KOMO news:
"Words cannot adequately convey the depth of our grief." The Hilty Family said (on behalf of decedents Lauren Hilty, Ross Mickel, Remy Mickel, and Luca Mickel). "The past three weeks have been absolute torture as we continue to anxiously await the retrieval of the plane and, more importantly, our loved ones. Our hope is this retrieval process is successful, but we know this is just the first step on our long, painful road ahead.

Here's SGB's website:

https://sgb-law.com/

What a shame that an apparent ambulance chasing law firm is already poised to pounce,
before the cause of the accident is even known.



If your family member was on a commercial flight and it crashed and they died, rather horrifically, why wouldn’t you have legal counsel?


If they were getting off the float and a hawk came down and scooped up their Pomeranian, or they set their Louis Vuitton bag on the rear of the float and it took a wave, yeah the lawyer is overboard, but when pax who’s safety the company was in-trusted dies in a floatplane crash so violent they need a submarine to find the wreckage, I’d be shocked hearing they didn’t have lawyers involved
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

hotrod180 wrote:From the linked news story:

Schroeter Goldmark & Bender (SGB), which is representing two of the families who have lost loved ones in the crash, sent a statement to KOMO news:
"Words cannot adequately convey the depth of our grief." The Hilty Family said (on behalf of decedents Lauren Hilty, Ross Mickel, Remy Mickel, and Luca Mickel). "The past three weeks have been absolute torture as we continue to anxiously await the retrieval of the plane and, more importantly, our loved ones. Our hope is this retrieval process is successful, but we know this is just the first step on our long, painful road ahead.

Here's SGB's website:

https://sgb-law.com/

What a shame that an apparent ambulance chasing law firm is already poised to pounce,
before the cause of the accident is even known.


No one dislikes bottom feeding lawyers more than me. In this case, if negligence is found as a contributing factor, representation is warranted.

Let’s hope the NTSB gets it right. Sad day.
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

I just read that the FAA has directed an inspection on all DHC-3s elevator spar.

Greg
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

56Tripacer wrote:I just read that the FAA has directed an inspection on all DHC-3s elevator spar.

Greg


Knee jerk reaction. https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExternalWindow/DRSDOCID139391948320221005002535.0001There have been cracks found in the trailing spar of the L/H elevator for decades. Definitely important to stay on top of that situation, but it's not what took this airplane down. We should be hearing something more about a suspected cause soon, but it won't bee the L/H elevator.
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

Over many years I have seen airworthiness directives correct both minor and major problems. I am not a mechanic, however. What happened with this otherwise very good airplane?
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

Contrary to suggestions made by somewhere, the NTSB’s actual research may have disclosed the actual cause of the Otter accident in Puget Sound. And, as usual, the You Tube pundits appear to have been wrong.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ble-cause/

I can only imagine the horror that pilot must have experienced in his last moments…..RIP.

MTV
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

This one doesn't require a subscription https://komonews.com/news/local/nationa ... sb-report#

Here's one with a little larger print so easier to read https://www.scribd.com/document/6026576 ... from_embed
Last edited by tcj on Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

mtv wrote:Contrary to suggestions made by somewhere, the NTSB’s actual research may have disclosed the actual cause of the Otter accident in Puget Sound. And, as usual, the You Tube pundits appear to have been wrong.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ble-cause/

I can only imagine the horror that pilot must have experienced in his last moments…..RIP.

MTV


I didn’t want to say anything before but it looks like the cat is definitely out of the bag now. Surprised how complete the reporting is in this article.

There’s talk now of adding a secondary safety to the top nut of the trim barrel assembly, it’s almost like the whole investigatory apparatus is actually working the way it’s supposed to. Almost enough to restore one’s trust in government agency, almost…
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

Technology is now available for workarounds. When non-officials use what experience and technology they have available to at least give evaluation a shot, officials seem to speed up a bit. Nothing wrong with withholding a final report until all is in as long as useful safety information gets out early. Airworthiness Directives, in my many years in aviation, seem to have been more timely than changes in pilot technique where needed. Simulators have brought airlines into very timely training corrections. We at the lower end of general aviation are still way behind, but workarounds are helping I think. If pilots pay attention to DMMS and even my don't pull on the stick without zoom reserve airspeed, all unofficial, I don't think it hurts them. Air Safety Institute is even getting useful information out earlier now.
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

mtv wrote:Contrary to suggestions made by somewhere, the NTSB’s actual research may have disclosed the actual cause of the Otter accident in Puget Sound. And, as usual, the You Tube pundits appear to have been wrong.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ble-cause/

I can only imagine the horror that pilot must have experienced in his last moments…..RIP.

MTV

That would have been horrific for all involved... Sad to hear about this.
Total loss of a primary flight control must be up there with fire on a pilot's list of worst ways to go.

There's certainly a message here about public speculation regarding a multiple-fatality accident, before any facts come out. Do so at the risk of your own reputation... #-o
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

Lots of single turbine otter operators around here, none seemed concerned. Tail inspection here is required on every 100hr. That component on that plane was looked at by maintenance on April 21, not that long ago.

Talked to a corporate Turbo Beaver pilot last week that had his trim control come apart on takeoff (runway, amphibs). Corrosion, with the result that it oscillated between full down and full up elevator trim. He figured out a power/control combination to keep it nose down, and had the front seat passenger help him hold the nose level. Once they had it sorted and stable he came around for a landing. Those get more frequent inspections now too.

Curious why if the elevator comes disconnected why it isn't flyable on trim. Happened in cruise and it turned into a lawn dart. I'll try have a look at one tomorrow and find out more.
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

Karmutzen wrote:Lots of single turbine otter operators around here, none seemed concerned. Tail inspection here is required on every 100hr. That component on that plane was looked at by maintenance on April 21, not that long ago.

Talked to a corporate Turbo Beaver pilot last week that had his trim control come apart on takeoff (runway, amphibs). Corrosion, with the result that it oscillated between full down and full up elevator trim. He figured out a power/control combination to keep it nose down, and had the front seat passenger help him hold the nose level. Once they had it sorted and stable he came around for a landing. Those get more frequent inspections now too.

Curious why if the elevator comes disconnected why it isn't flyable on trim. Happened in cruise and it turned into a lawn dart. I'll try have a look at one tomorrow and find out more.


Otter tailplane is a completely different design than a turbo beaver. Otter has a trimming stabilizer with a jackscrew attached below the leading edge and 2 hinge points below the trailing edge. It’s R/H elevator has a servotab where you would expect a trim tab and the L/H elevator has a “flap compensating tab” similarly located.

Turbo beaver, and recip beaver, has a jackscrew mounted below the stabilizer trailing edge which drives a bellcrank assembly and 2 trim rods which actuate 2 traditional style trim tabs.

If the jackscrew on a beaver becomes jammed you’re stuck with unfavorable trim forces, it can’t really come apart like the jackscrew in the accident otter did.

If the jackscrew on an otter suddenly loses its top then the stabilizer is free to violently bang between its two extremes of travel. At this point the pilot is, at best, faced with pitch control reversal but is most certainly totally fucked.
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

Agreed ^^^. The Beaver also has a long standing AD requiring inspection of those two elevator trim tab linkages. Failure of weather of those initiates a violent “hunting” of the elevator, as Karmutzen describes on a Turbo Beaver.

I had one linkage break on a piston Beaver right after takeoff from water. It slammed the controls fore and aft violently, was all I could do with both hands to keep the yoke from hitting the stops. Hardest thing I’ve ever done was turn loose with right hand and bring power to idle, which moderated the oscillation some. Flopped back in the water, and taxied to shore.

I can’t imagine what that would have been like in cruise, and I’m sure FAR milder than what happened in that Otter.

After that, I did a very careful inspection of both those linkages prior to EVERY takeoff.

MTV
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

Looking at the schematic picture of the jackscrew, it looks pretty complicated compared to a Cessna. Why is there a clamp nut and not just solid one piece so it can't come apart. Is it so oil can be squirted inside the threads. Seems that this covered with ACF-50 would be a good idea.
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Re: NTSB Finds Float Plane Wreckage

I understand the conservative nature of aviation parts, but could some of the amazingly good sealed bearing type stuff in modern automobiles be introduced into aviation parts. Yes, it would be more expensive to disassemble and inspect. But it would be sealed in use. I am not a mechanic so help me understand. Maybe weight is the problem.
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