I'm hoping you guys can give me a little bit of feedback on my plan.

Background:
I fly a Tomahawk out of KBQR in Western NY near Buffalo. It's a nice long paved strip, and it's the closest place for me to hangar my plane. It's still a 45 minute drive from my house to Lancaster, and it makes quick hops an impossibility.

My house is in the Southtowns, in a relatively rural location. My house is on 50 acres of former farmland, now about 1/2 of it is forest and the other half is a mixture of fields, ponds, and structures.

Plan:
I really want to build a hangar and fly off my property. Being able to get home from work and actually go for a nice 30 minute flight at sunset instead of driving 90 minutes for a 30 minute flight, getting home 2 hours later, etc. My commute to work is about 45 minutes as well, so driving that far is a real pain.

Below is a satellite image of the segment of my property I'm thinking about. It's 60' x 1020' or so. The grade is a consistent 4.1% upward slope to the west (left in the picture).



Beyond the strip to the west (left) is a slightly increasing slope that could be used as extra length for takeoffs to the east, but I wouldn't want to land to the west using it.

Beyond the strip to the east (right) is a treeline. The trees are about 50' tall, and can be taken down to provide a more suitable approach path if necessary.

What I'd like to do is build a Rans S-20 Raven with the ultimate intention of hangaring and flying it out of my property. Does this seem like a reasonable plan? I'm thinking this would likely be an 8-10 year process, from building the Raven, getting comfortable at reasonably short strips, preparing the land (probably bulldoze it smooth, etc), and building a hangar.

The Raven ostensibly will land and takeoff in about 300 feet at gross. Assuming that I don't fly when the winds are above a certain threshold to make downhill takeoffs and uphill landings feasible, I'll still be flying more than if I had to drive 90 minutes to the hangar and back.

I could entertain building a SuperSTOL if the Raven couldn't handle the short strip, but I'm not sure how close to the edge of that envelope I am right now. I admittedly don't have a lot of back country experience, so that's what I'm looking for from you guys!

Questions? Opinions? Am I crazy?

If there is a will there is a way! from what I hear a Raven would be fine. Superstol is for when you need to land across the runway....

Go for it!

Nothing better than taking off and landing at the house!

How are the neighbors???


8-10 year process???

Lots of changes in life happen in that amount of time.

Good luck.

The neighbors are friendly and spend a good portion of the year in Florida, so I don't anticipate that being an issue.

Are there regulatory hurdles to get over? If I'm landing on my own property maybe once a week on average, does that require some sort of clearance? I'm assuming I don't have to get it on the sectional, etc, but I have no idea.

I'm being pessimistic with the time frame, figuring that things will get in the way. I figure if I start building the Raven this summer, I could be done by summer 2018 (non-quickbuild), and then by the time I get comfortable with the plane, build a hangar, etc... probably 5 years realistically. 8-10 in the worst case.

Anybody have any experience with landing on your own property?

Nice.

Where is home for you?

Tim

Landing at home is the best. I wouldn't fly nearly as much if I had to drive an hr to get to my plane. And I love having my plane tied down in front of my house.
I like your plan a lot. I say go for it!
David

I say go for it!!! I am slightly biased, however. I own an airstrip that is 1000x50.

You can check it out here: https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/i-bought-an-airstrip-bring-on-the-tlc-and-elbow-grease-15382

I flew my Savage Cub out of there for almost two years with Zero issues. It has the same published (basic) numbers as the Raven.

It is an eternal project, but I do love it. I wish I was there more to enjoy it and work on it, but the day will come when I can be there more often and take advantage. I work in Eastern Pennsylvania. The strip is in SE Ohio near Marietta. If I ever decide on which Cessna 180 to buy, I will be able to commute to work at the end of the week and beginning of the following week. Can't wait!

The length will be fine, being a home strip it will become extra familiar to you in no time and given the aircraft you want to use on it you'll have double what you comfortably need. having the ability to clear a little extra for approaches and departures will be nice, because it won't be your friends home strip, and they will be dropping in on you. Mine is only slightly longer, and the only time I get too concerned is when a friend stops by in his Eagle. It pretty much uses the entire strip, but he does an exceptional job of it. Leaving is a non event.

It's probably easier to separate large projects, as building an airplane can be consuming, but since it's already home, cutting in a strip and putting up a hangar doesn't really need to be daunting, more so if you intend to farm out most of that work.

Outside of acquisition costs and tieing up a relatively large chunk of land, the only other downside I can think of is recapturing your investment should you decide to cash out. Out here airstrip homes are a dime a dozen, none are moving all too quick, and never for what the owner thinks they are worth. If none of that factors in, I can't think of a good reason to pay someone else's mortgage to house your airplane

Take care, Rob

daesharacor wrote:The neighbors are friendly and spend a good portion of the year in Florida, so I don't anticipate that being an issue.

Are there regulatory hurdles to get over? If I'm landing on my own property maybe once a week on average, does that require some sort of clearance? I'm assuming I don't have to get it on the sectional, etc, but I have no idea.

I'm being pessimistic with the time frame, figuring that things will get in the way. I figure if I start building the Raven this summer, I could be done by summer 2018 (non-quickbuild), and then by the time I get comfortable with the plane, build a hangar, etc... probably 5 years realistically. 8-10 in the worst case.

Anybody have any experience with landing on your own property?

Sounds like a great plan. I'd open a dialog with the local jurisdictions: County/Borough, etc. Open the conversation gently, and be careful to note that it would be a very low volume of use. Sometimes when you say "Airstrip", planners and politicians think you're talking about Kennedy International.... You'll likely need some sort of building permit, at least for the hangar, so best to get that cleared up right away. Check with the State Aeronautics branch or whatever jurisdiction exists there, which may be none of the above.

The FAA could care less if you land on your own property....but, if you want to ensure at least a minimal protection of your strip, I'd file it with the FAA. Doesn't have to be done right away. And, you can file it as a private, keep the hell away status with them. The point of registering it with the FAA is that MAY provide some backing if someone decides to place a cell tower or other obstruction precisely on final for your strip. Down the road, that could be important. Or not.

Good luck, this sounds like a daunting, but really worthwhile project. I'd build the hangar first, start on the plane, and start working on the strip.

MTV

Do you already have a good shop to build the S-20? If not, it might be worth starting out with the hangar construction?

[edit- MTV and I must have hit submit simultaneously re. the order of operations]

One more thought- hard to see in your photo about electrical service to the properties, but are overhead wires in play? Might take some lead-time to get them buried at the approach ends, but ought to be doable.

Also, 4.1% grade is not insignificant. Departing uphill (toward the trees?) could equate to as much as a 10Kt tailwind. Maybe comfortable for the Rans, I don't really know. What are prevailing winds like?

mtv wrote:

daesharacor wrote:The neighbors are friendly and spend a good portion of the year in Florida, so I don't anticipate that being an issue.

Are there regulatory hurdles to get over? If I'm landing on my own property maybe once a week on average, does that require some sort of clearance? I'm assuming I don't have to get it on the sectional, etc, but I have no idea.

I'm being pessimistic with the time frame, figuring that things will get in the way. I figure if I start building the Raven this summer, I could be done by summer 2018 (non-quickbuild), and then by the time I get comfortable with the plane, build a hangar, etc... probably 5 years realistically. 8-10 in the worst case.

Anybody have any experience with landing on your own property?

Sounds like a great plan. I'd open a dialog with the local jurisdictions: County/Borough, etc. Open the conversation gently, and be careful to note that it would be a very low volume of use. Sometimes when you say "Airstrip", planners and politicians think you're talking about Kennedy International.... You'll likely need some sort of building permit, at least for the hangar, so best to get that cleared up right away. Check with the State Aeronautics branch or whatever jurisdiction exists there, which may be none of the above.

I disagree. Go over the zoning and any local laws first. If there is nothing in there, build your airport and get it registered with the FAA. You never know who is on the zoning board and they may make a law before you build your strip. Its your land, comply with the zoning and local laws and build your strip.

Tim

Research as Tim suggested; if no roadblocks, build it.

I did:

https://vimeo.com/154246995

The Raven will do nicely on 1000' but you better brush up on your short/soft field technique for the Tomahawk, got about 40 hrs in one and those trees at the end will make you sphincter up.

Where is home for you?

Boston, NY (I know, I know).

I say go for it!!! I am slightly biased, however. I own an airstrip that is 1000x50.

Thanks for the link! Your property is definitely better suited than mine, and what a great story!

I can't think of a good reason to pay someone else's mortgage to house your airplane

My thoughts exactly.

I'd open a dialog with the local jurisdictions

Well, I searched my town's codes and there's nothing in there for airports / runways or anything like that. I'll move on to my County. It's NY so I'm sure there's paperwork out the rear end.

Do you already have a good shop to build the S-20?

Yep, I have a nice 25' x 25' heated and insulated shop that I have set up for building an airplane. I've actually got a '46 Luscombe 8A fuselage and wings in there right now waiting on an A-65 rebuild that may never happen. Anyhow, the shop is perfect for building, but it's a little small for hangaring.

are overhead wires in play?

Yeah, sorta. At the west (left) end, there is one 220V wire on a set of poles that I'll likely need to have buried. It's all the way at the end, past the 1020' "runway" I marked out on the drawing. It's about 50' further left from my drawn end of the strip, and runs North / South.

4.1% grade is not insignificant. ... What are prevailing winds like?

Yes, I definitely am taking this in to consideration. It's my intention at this point, that operations would only be undertaken when winds were extremely light and could accommodate downhill takeoffs and uphill landings. Prevailing winds are from the west (left), so it would make landing easier uphill, and takeoffs tougher, but downhill. Again, I think that intelligent hard rules on conditions that would allow flight from the property will be necessary.

Its your land, comply with the zoning and local laws and build your strip.

I'm going to do this. My mom works for the town as a planning / zoning coordinator so I can get a lot of good info from her. I'd like to keep it quiet for as long as I can. It's not something I want to announce to anybody, since the only thing the neighbors or town should care about is my (maybe) once per week runup and takeoff, which isn't that loud in a 100hp 4 stroke.


You guys are great! Any other questions / answer / experiences with short strips in LSAs, or regulatory hurdles conducting operations on your own land?

The Raven will do nicely on 1000' but you better brush up on your short/soft field technique for the Tomahawk, got about 40 hrs in one and those trees at the end will make you sphincter up.

Oh lord no, I'm not going to bring the Tomahawk in there! Great little plane, but the tricycle gear and small tires really don't do much for rough fields!

daesharacor wrote:Questions? Opinions? Am I crazy?

Not crazy at all. I'm another one that has done that and am glad. There is nothing like flying out of your own strip.

One thing not mentioned so far is to make sure that your insurance will allow you to land off airport. Unless your strip is registered with the FAA you will be falling under that category no matter how well executed your project ends up.

I would remove the trees on the east end. Downhill takeoff, with that much grade, should be necessary. Downhill into trees, either taking off or spraying, can cause pilots to leave ground effect too early. Starting a climb too late seldom happens because of how scary it looks. Five feet, with flying speed, over the trees works out much better than fifty feet over the trees without flying speed.

Technique trumps airplane. Get comfortable with the basic low ground effect takeoff and some kind of slow power/pitch approach to landing.

I don't know... it sounds pretty short Ha ha ha ha! You'll be able to get in there with your eyes closed, a total piece of cake for the S-20, which of course has the S-7 wing. I've flown two different S-7's out of 400' long strips now for 20 years (almost). With a much greater field elevation, 6150' for the my first and 5640' with my current one. I wouldn't get too excited about cutting trees etc., you can always do that later, you have a surplus of room. Good looking property!

Its just a new 1,020' X 60' lawn with a 40' x 40' lawn mower shed. I would definitely get rid of the trees and power lines if that is an option. That will give you a lot more versatility.

I went through something similar, but with the river my house is on.

First I made sure I could actually land there, easy stuff, satellite images like yours and basic checkout of the surface and, in my case, depth, also I double checked the airspace over my place, G so all was good.

Second I gauged my neighbors, I'm in FarmVille too, no one cared, most actually liked the idea.

Three I spoke to the official types, the agency who governs the water and the two cop shops who have jurisdiction, all good.

Make sure you document, without being annoying, and write down names and times of anyone you talk to, just incase.

DONE.

Now I decided NOT to try to make it a official SPB, I didn't bother with the zoning folks, heck don't know where I would find them anyway in my area, just keep your questions to minimal people, think of it like those people who draft questions into lengthy letters and ask the FAA, better to just not go there.

I didn't build my strip but, there is nothing like taking a spin in your plane when you have a few extra minutes. Excellent stress relief. I will probably take a 15 minute spin in the morning before I start a long day of work in the hangar on other peoples projects tomorrow. Sunset flights are also a great way to finish off the day. With no travel time to the airport, I can squeeze in a flight almost every flyable day.

Go for it! It is woth the effort!!!!!