Not yet, Steve's Aircraft had mentioned one earlier as on his to do list.
A couple that were Field Approvals.
Dave

One of the weak spots (aerodynamically) on the Piper aircraft is that nice round wingtip bow. Although it was attractive in the day, it is poor aerodynamically. You lose a significant amount of lift (or effective wingspan) that was otherwise available, and it makes more drag at low speed than it needs to. This has been proven out again and again in many different new designs. Try and find any production airplane built today that has round wingtips.

Stewart Systems (who makes the newfangled water based fabric covering) has an improved wingtip shape available. The big droopy old Ace Demers "Super Tips" were also available for the Pacer. They should be good for a little bit at least. (If you could take the Demers Super Tips and "bend" them back up level with the wing, they would work even better, but that is a subject for another thread.)

Of all the bolt-on back country performance improvements, the VG's are almost universally accepted as well worth the money and the most bang for the buck. When you get tired of bending over and sticking your face into the instrument panel deploying or retracting the flaps... "there's an app for that too", see below.

yagatov wrote:Is there an STC to convert from yoke to stick in PA 22/20?

Not aware of an STC, however I know a guy who did one as a field approval. To tell the truth, except maybe for aerobatics, I don't think it's worth the trouble. The stick is somewhat more intuitive to fly, but IMHO it's more in the way climbing in and out of the airplane & sometimes just sitting in it as a passenger. It is high in cool factor though.

When Piper made the Colt did that give the pilot any more legroom or did they leave the seats in the same place?

Hey gang,

Just bought a set of cleveland double pucks for the pacer... When I tried to do the install I realized that my axles are 1.25" and the wheels are 1"... I cant get in touch with anybody at cleveland. Anybody else had this issue?

Jeremy

Alaskabound,

Is your Pacer a Univair conversion? If it is then I believe that your axles are 1.5inch and the standard for most small Pipers is 1.25inch. I bought a pair of six bolt cleveland wheels for my Pacer and found that out. If you can't get a hold of anyone at cleveland call the guys at Univair and I'll bet they can help you. They've always been very good to me.

Mike

Guys,

What is a realistic runway length for a skilled pilot in a PA 20/22 with 150 hp? I see 1800' mentioned, but that's more like an airliner than a bush plane. Can this airplane operate out of half that with a half load at say 2500' DA? From what I am gathering, it sounds like a 150 hp 172 with a STOL kit is a much better short field airplane. Any thoughts? I have 900' of smooth, level grass with wide open approaches on both ends. I'm looking for a reasonably priced 4 seater that can operate on that with 2 people and half fuel with decent cruise speed and IFR capability. I keep coming back to a 172 as the best bang for the buck. Stinson's seem like a possibility as well, especially with a 180 lycoming. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!
Andy

Stinson would be my first choice.
John

stewartsystems wrote:Guys,

What is a realistic runway length for a skilled pilot in a PA 20/22 with 150 hp? I see 1800' mentioned, but that's more like an airliner than a bush plane. Can this airplane operate out of half that with a half load at say 2500' DA? From what I am gathering, it sounds like a 150 hp 172 with a STOL kit is a much better short field airplane. Any thoughts? I have 900' of smooth, level grass with wide open approaches on both ends. I'm looking for a reasonably priced 4 seater that can operate on that with 2 people and half fuel with decent cruise speed and IFR capability. I keep coming back to a 172 as the best bang for the buck. Stinson's seem like a possibility as well, especially with a 180 lycoming. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!
Andy

With a Borer prop and Bushwheels (higher AOA) I have seen a Pacer do Super Cub like things. Not a cub, but damn near it. And two more seats. I would not be afraid to operate one in and out of a 1000' strip at all, assuming no obstructions and low DA's. I only have a little bit of time in two different pacers, both had Borer props. I was impressed with the capability.

Definitely lots of fun per dollar.

Youtube channel Avcan to see what a Pacer can do. They aren't a Cub, but with a few mods they aren't too far away.

I would be looking at the HD gear and the longer wing tips first, based on the conversions I've seen over here.

With a Borer prop and Bushwheels (higher AOA) I have seen a Pacer do Super Cub like things. Not a cub, but damn near it. And two more seats. I would not be afraid to operate one in and out of a 1000' strip at all, assuming no obstructions and low DA's. I only have a little bit of time in two different pacers, both had Borer props. I was impressed with the capability.

Definitely lots of fun per dollar.



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Looks like a really sharp plane! I see it's listed on Barnstormers and looks reasonably priced. I really like the Pacer's but holding out for a Stinson -3 with 220hp or better. Unfortunately about a year out before I have enough saved to make a purchase. But there are a lot of worthy Pacers out there.

The Pacer is for sure a sleeper with the ported 160hp with borer prop or 180 STC that plane performs! Undervalued aircraft IMO. Uses same parts as most long wing pipers. I'm currently building a Clipper(sticks) with the 150 hp STC but upgrading for the Ported 160hp cylinders. Bought the whole complete project, engine, prop, frame blasted and primed, and all for less then an "almost" airworthySuperCub frame.

stewartsystems wrote:Guys,

What is a realistic runway length for a skilled pilot in a PA 20/22 with 150 hp? I see 1800' mentioned, but that's more like an airliner than a bush plane. Can this airplane operate out of half that with a half load at say 2500' DA? From what I am gathering, it sounds like a 150 hp 172 with a STOL kit is a much better short field airplane. Any thoughts? I have 900' of smooth, level grass with wide open approaches on both ends. I'm looking for a reasonably priced 4 seater that can operate on that with 2 people and half fuel with decent cruise speed and IFR capability. I keep coming back to a 172 as the best bang for the buck. Stinson's seem like a possibility as well, especially with a 180 lycoming. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!
Andy

My first plane was a converted 22 with 135 HP. I frequented many friends with 1200' to 1500' strips. Not an issue with proficiency. I once got in and out of 600' but that was solo and 1500' DA. 900' with clear approaches would not scare me solo. VG's and wing tips are really good mods. Buying the pacer was the best aviation decision i ever made.

Bill

I second the above comment "buying the pacer was the best aviation decision I've made". I DID ground loop it once, but I was way too green to have taken it out by myself (it was th day I bought her). Now it's no issue and I don't even think about the "squirrelly" nature they are known for, just lots of pedal use.

My CFI was impressed with her(with a borer, 150hp, droop tips, and 31"s) and we were able to take off and land with full fuel and both of us in around 400' at sea level in summer Alaska(probably around standard temp).


Couldn't figure out how to post my pics but I'll put them in my profile. At this point I am only limited by personal skill, , and loading the plane leaves so much more room than my buddies cub (till he just got a belly pod)

My only Pacer flight was with Mr. Pacer himself, Eddie Trimmer, in his plane with a borer prop and I believe extended gear on penetration skis. I'm a 250 pounder and we were airborne so quickly I was really surprised.

akaviator wrote:My only Pacer flight was with Mr. Pacer himself, Eddie Trimmer, in his plane with a borer prop and I believe extended gear on penetration skis. I'm a 250 pounder and we were airborne so quickly I was really surprised.

Exactly! Mr. Eddie has also the 180hp STC conversion In a 880 lbs PA-16 Clipper that would blow the socks off a SC anyday with the backseat full of camping gear and a cooler full of suds. And get there faster. Put it in a -22/20 with the Bushmaster STC for a quarter of a SC price tag, and I see no a no brainer. SC Yuppies can kiss their ass.

AKJurnee wrote: PA-16 Clipper that would blow the socks off a SC anyday

Somebody pass the popcorn please.... pardon me sir, is this seat taken?... I'm really going to enjoy this. As a spectator, no less.

AKJurnee wrote:SC Yuppies can kiss their ass.

Mine too.

Pacers are great airplanes... And 180 Pacers are even better...

Brian