I've painted many airplanes over the years to " pretty or protect exterior " from the elements. Paint on typical 180 cesnna airframe runs 40-50 + lbs. For say 2-3 color cover ing. Alodine will protect the airframe and weight 8-10 lbs and protect for generations of years. Its all about weight on airframe and performance . I've been looking into building a Zenith 750 cruiser ( cutting out mine own kit) and alodine ing the parts before assembly . Suspect that 750 no paint would save me 30-40 lbs or more. Couple of small letters /numbers would all that is required .

Can you see Alodine? Is it prettier or uglier than plain aluminum? I've thought about polishing everything but the underside of things.

Curious

I've always been curious about this. 40-50lbs seems like a lot! Even if that is the before weight of the paint I would think that after all of the over spray and the moisture leaving the paint as it dries on the plane that the actual weight would be much less??? I guess my question would be were those numbers determined by actually weighing the airplane or the product?

Just curious that's all. We thought about polished aluminum before painting the 180 but decided that neither of us had the time or energy to devote to keep it looking like it should so it got painted.

CW

Embraer used to publish that a polished Brasilia turboprop would save 200 lbs. over a painted one. I think that 40-50lbs may be a high estimate for a cessna 180

This is a pretty interesting topic. I remember reading somewhere that United Airlines cut 850 lbs of paint weight off their 747's when they went from a predominantly white color scheme to the grey and blue. The reason for the lower weight was more pigment in the darker paints, and therefore less paint to cover. Not very useful trivia, I'll admit.

Personally, I think bright colors on a plane is worth the weight for visibility both in flight and on the ground, but polished vintage aircraft sure are pretty.

I have a friend who painted his bare aluminum 170. I believe the paint job added 25 or 30lbs.

A couple of things on Alodine:

1. The surfaces have to be really, really clean to use the process well. This is typically done with a mild nitric acid and detergent solution. ANY contamination will stop the conversion process in its tracks in the areas that are not really, really clean. Anything else and it just ends up looking blotchy.

2. The acid cleaning step is pretty much impossible to use around lap joints, rivets, and other features that can not be scrupulously rinsed. Leaving acid in the joints is not a great idea for obvious reasons (you can instantly tell where folks have done that on assemblies, for example).

3. Alodine is not particularly tough. As in- touch it with any sort of edge, and it is gone. Paint is much tougher.

In the end, an Alodine or Iridite process on a fuselage will look splotchy at best, and not last very long. I've seen alodined pod nose cones come back after a single flight, and the bugs alone were enough to scrape off streaks of it.

But- to each their own. There are better coatings out there than Alodine, that's all. It is convenient to use, though, and does offer some protection at least.

God bless the internet! I love this kind of thread as it is always full of hearsay, rumor, and myth. Some folks are claiming up to 50lbs, but no one seems to actually have quantifiable data.

Our lists are full of diet plans and weight reports. (I certainly am guilty of posting my share of numbers...) IMHO, 50lbs seems lunacy. Even 30 might be on the high end, but who knows... (a girl can dream right?) All I know is my orig Cessna paperwork lists a full paint job at 18.5lbs. Stripe only is 3.5. I wish I had actually done a before/after weight, but there were just to many variables, so not worth the time.

I think that what we can all agree on is that no paint is lighter than paint. This is why I chose to polish. By the same token, we all know that polishing the underside of a wing sucks. And it is this reason I decided to paint my wings. Tried to start light, but keep practical. My motto has been "as light as possible, heavy as necessary." I have tended to toss what I don't need, but splurge on reasonable comfort. This is what makes individual ownership fun, so I applaud you for beginning the though process.

Of course I stripped the entire inside of my airplane, then etch primed and painted a fresh coat on Imron from the firewall to the last station defeating any gains I might have realized on the exterior... Guess Im just a dumb-ass.

My personal feeling: Strip on ladies... Strip on!

bigrenna wrote:Of course I stripped the entire inside of my airplane, then etch primed and painted a fresh coat on Imron from the firewall to the last station defeating any gains I might have realized on the exterior... Guess Im just a dumb-ass.

I wasn't going to say anything, but somebody should've told you the paint goes on the outside of the plane!

Just kidding. I'm in awe of your bird.

"Of course I stripped the entire inside of my airplane, then etch primed and painted a fresh coat on Imron from the firewall to the last station defeating any gains I might have realized on the exterior... Guess Im just a dumb-ass. "

Stripping on the inside of the plane only saves if you throw the cloths out the window But getting out of the plane after landing has to be done discretely

According to Cessna's weight and balance paperwork for my 56 C172, the "overall paint scheme" adds 28 pounds over the standard paint scheme. Visibility in the air is great for a pollished plane, but from the ground I have been accused of flying a "stealth cessna" several times, polished planes dissapear into a summer inversion layer, with nothing visible except the strobes.

Modern paints are a lot thinner than the old paint systems. Zinc Chromate primer went on thick as did the enamel top coat. New poly/epoxy primers go on thin. The typical use is about 1&1/2 quarts or less. Then about a gallon of lets say white, about 1/2 to 1 quart of a big stripe primary and a speed stripe at about 1/2 quart. So your talking 2 to 2 1/2 gallons of coating, of which 30-40% is volatile carrier. So weigh out some paint, do the math. I'd say you more looking under 20 lbs for most modern systems, with imron being heavier and Jet Glo being very light (but bad ass expensive). Alumigrip publishes numbers of 3.5 lbs of volatile per gallon and coating weight of .0079 lbs per sq ft and a gallon will cover 825 sq ft.

I think polished looks cool, I would never want one though. I have seen the damage that can be done long term if you lose interest in maintaining it for a year. So like a high performance racing bike, you can save weight by selecting ultra light (expensive) components made from the finest compressed hummingbird scrotums; or have a complete bowel movement and take a leak before a ride and save more weight.

I doubt any of the weight 'guesstimates' on this thread are that unbelievable.... Paint jobs are so subjective. We have all seen paint jobs that could qualify as bondo jobs, and probably all seen the paint jobs that are so thin that you can tell where the underlying colors (primer etc) are heavier or lighter. Having stripped two different super cub fabric systems off and weighed them (same fabric, different coatings) I can also attest to the fact that different paint systems weigh different amounts, although not really enough to sweat over.

I really really like to know exactly what I'm working with when it comes to things like weight, balance, and power. Extrapolated stuff, and hearsay is ok for ball parking, and rough planning, but the Forrest Gump in me needs to know...

So... when I painted the 180 we weighed it at the paint booth, right before it came apart, and then again right after it was re assembled. I *think* my paint job is very 'average' in thickness, in quality, and in style. The difference was 34 pounds. The only things that changed other than the color between these 'weigh ins' was the window and door rubber, and the upper strut cuffs, which went from the original rubber doughnuts, to Stein fairings. I didn't weigh the before and after of these items, but the strut cuffs are within ounces of the doughnuts, and there is probably a few ounces difference in new vs old rubber....




Net, net.... would I do it again... I dunno.... it took me a long time to decide to pull the trigger, the weight that it gained is not something you can remove when you want to (like a back seat) On the other hand, while I really don't need or want a show queen, I do appreciate how much easier it is to make a painted bird 'presentable'

I really like bigrenna's motto ; "as light as possible, heavy as necessary" Works for me too!
Take care, Rob

All the new alumumn sheet is covered in alklad from finishing process . I've alodine d thousands of parts going on airframe structures with simple process .If paint is stripped off clean surface with alumprep cleaner to bright original shine -using old paint brush or spray bottle ( or dip) part with alodine - let sit for min or and spray off with clean water . Been there done that many times. I agree 40-50 lbs may be a little much but it will save some weight . When people ask about how much weight they will save by going to small battery I explain go to bowling alley and pick up 3 bowling ball s and carry them around for while .Weight is weight on the available amount of wing area you have to fly with.YMMV

This is a topic i have kicked around a long time. My plane is more of a pick-up truck/family SUV and has a ruff life up here, so i'm not as concerned about re-sale or looks, just trying to preserve the airframe. At some point in the near future, i am going to need to do something.

i have considered stripping the paint and clearcoating as an alternative, any thoughts

Slowhawk, there is a clear coat out there that works on bare aluminum. A couple years ago I was seriously considering clear coating my bird, a company called Airtech Coating Inc. makes the stuff. They developed it for Ag Planes to protect the paint from chemical exposure and also to make a seamless transition on fabric planes with metal parts like the cowling. I talked to the folks and they assured me it would not diminish the mirror look of the polished aluminum much if at all, the most important part obviously being prepping the aluminum etc. Sounded good but the quote for the clear coat product was enough that I decided to hold off till I had more money stashed away. Definitely cheaper than a paint job, but I don't remember the exact number. The guy I talked to was really helpful, here is the link.

http://www.airtechcoatings.com (edit: go to page 3 in their gallery and 7th picture is a polished Lockheed Lodestar with the clear coat)

In response to folks that say polishing is a PITA, I disagree and have maintained my polished bird for 3 years and still don't mind. Once you get it polished up nice, it is a once per year maybe twice deal to maintain. I've mentioned this in other posts, but its worth mentioning again, the best polish I've found is "California Customs Purple," it has a polymer that acts just like a protective wax, takes the same time as waxing paint. Electric buffers help for sure and good friends go a long way too. By myself bout a 6-8 hour job including washing the plane first. With a couple extra sets of hands its a 2-4 hour job. Just the polish, by myself, is bout 3-4 hours. Way quicker if just applying for protection and not shooting for mirror shine, thats everything other than the belly. No matter how you shake it the bottom of the wings suck, I don't spend the time to get a mirror shine there just apply for protection. Other than that, just need to touch up spots like the cowling that are always getting greasy being taken on and off. Baking flour is necessary to get the polish residue off, just put some in your rag and it comes off like nothin, without it and its a b*tch to get off.

After that, to keep it up you just wash the plane with clean water (no soap it will eat away at polymer) and wipe dry, looks like you just got done polishing and takes the exact same amount of time as washing any plane. So far, keeping the cub clean is no easier than keeping the 180 clean. FWIW my 180 is my work truck too, doesn't get babied, usually gets flown just bout daily, and our hangar at the ranch doesn't have a door and is basically a dustbowl. My secret to keeping it clean is to wait until it rains, knock the dust off with a towel or whatever first, then go fly through the rain. Ideally, find scattered showers and then you don't even have to dry it off

Still don't know how to put photos up without using iPhone tapatalk, someday. Here's part two of my shameless plug for no paint

Beautiful Skaly! When I dream about a 185 that is exactly what it looks like...

dogpilot wrote: components made from the finest compressed hummingbird scrotums;

Hey dog pilot, you got a good CHS guy? My supplier was busted by the feds not long ago and damned if I can get my hands on any.

I think most of my Colnago CX-1 is made from CHS, many of the other high tech super lite SRAM components are ultra pure bolonium. CHS has a more attractive finish than bolonium, but bolonium is more durable. I would never paint the CHS, but bolonium really needs paint for its own protection.

Both CHS & bolonium are available from Amazon, free shipping with Prime, plus its delivered by drones.