I'm working on getting my commercial ASEL right now, I'm curious if bush plane operations frown upon logging PIC while getting dual received. I would obviously only log time that I am actually PIC but I'm not sure what the folks in the industry think. Anybody have some industry experience to let a young pilot know what he should do??

hunter,
corrected. see MTV's post. Just double checked my log book and you are correct. It was just PIC and him getting instruction hours.
sorry about the confusion
-kneel

Log all flight time that you are the sole manipulator of the controls after you are rated. That's why you got the private pilot. I did this all through my training and was never asked about it in any interview. It's what I have my students do and what I'm doing now (getting another category on my ticket).

Thanks to both of you! I appreciate your input and I'll discuss doing it with my own instructor.

-hunter

kneel wrote:hunter,
I know that you can get both PIC and dual if you are receiving instruction on improving you flying skills as long as you are NOT working towards a rating. My initial instructor and I did this for a couple of hours. I wanted to become a better pilot but wasn't trying for any ratings. So we spent a several hours learning chandels, dutch rolls, lazy eights, etc. This worked well for the both of us because he got instruction hours and I got dual and PIC hours. Again, it only works when you are NOT working on a rating.

-kneel

Nope.

FAR 1.1: Pilot in command means the person who:

(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;

(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and

(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.


FAR 61.51: (e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-

(i) When the pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated, or has sport pilot privileges for that category and class of aircraft, if the aircraft class rating is appropriate;

(ii) When the pilot is the sole occupant in the aircraft;

(iii) When the pilot, except for a holder of a sport or recreational pilot certificate, acts as pilot in command of an aircraft for which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted; or

(iv) When the pilot performs the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a qualified pilot in command provided—

(A) The pilot performing the duties of pilot in command holds a commercial or airline transport pilot certificate and aircraft rating that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft being flown, if a class rating is appropriate;

(B) The pilot performing the duties of pilot in command is undergoing an approved pilot in command training program that includes ground and flight training on the following areas of operation—

( 1 ) Preflight preparation;

( 2 ) Preflight procedures;

( 3 ) Takeoff and departure;

( 4 ) In-flight maneuvers;

( 5 ) Instrument procedures;

( 6 ) Landings and approaches to landings;

( 7 ) Normal and abnormal procedures;

( 8 ) Emergency procedures; and

( 9 ) Postflight procedures;

(C) The supervising pilot in command holds—

( 1 ) A commercial pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate, and aircraft rating that is appropriate to the category, class, and type of aircraft being flown, if a class or type rating is required; or

( 2 ) An airline transport pilot certificate and aircraft rating that is appropriate to the category, class, and type of aircraft being flown, if a class or type rating is required; and

(D) The supervising pilot in command logs the pilot in command training in the pilot's logbook, certifies the pilot in command training in the pilot's logbook and attests to that certification with his or her signature, and flight instructor certificate number.

(2) If rated to act as pilot in command of the aircraft, an airline transport pilot may log all flight time while acting as pilot in command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate.

(3) A certificated flight instructor may log pilot in command flight time for all flight time while serving as the authorized instructor in an operation if the instructor is rated to act as pilot in command of that aircraft.

(4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot—

(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember;

(ii) Has a solo flight endorsement as required under §61.87 of this part; and

(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.

In fact, in some cases, you may log Pilot in Command time legally, even though you cannot legally SERVE as PIC in that aircraft. For example, you are training for your commercial in a complex aircraft but you haven't been endorsed as qualified to operate a complex aircraft. You may log the flight time that you were the sole manipulator of the controls of that aircraft, even though an instructor was flying with you, and even though you aren't qualified to fly that airplane solo. The reason is found in FAR 61.51 (e) i: You are flying an airplane for which you are RATED, ie: your pilot certificate says you're rated for Airplane (Category) Single Engine Land (Class).

So, you can legally log the time you were the sole manipulator of the controls, even though you can't legally fly solo in that airplane. Same goes for tailwheel, high performance, etc.

As long as you are the sole manipulator of the controls. Note that a qualified instructor may also log that flight time as PIC, based on FAR 1.1:

Pilot in command means the person who:
(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;

So, if you are receiving instruction for WHATEVER purpose, you may log that time as PIC, as long as it's an airplane for which you are rated.

MTV