http://www.startribune.com/faa-investigating-floatplane-s-landing-on-lake-near-7th-hole-of-ryder-cup/395634681/
I sent the following letter to the reporter who wrote the story:
Dear Mr. Walsh:
I read with great interest your story about the floatplane pilot and canoeists cited for being on Lake Hazeltine during a recent golf tournament. I am not from your area. My interest lies in my being a licensed and careful commercial seaplane and landplane pilot with over 4,000 hours of flying time logged, with zero accidents, incidents, or violations.
If I was the pilot of that airplane, I would demand a retraction and a public apology from police chief Knight. He has called the pilot an imbecile, stupid, and a liar to the national media. The recently passed temporary local ordinance was not disseminated in a way that a prudent pilot, performing due diligence prior to the flight, could possibly have been made aware of it through any of the normal sources relied upon by pilots. It is akin to a city passing a temporary low speed limit on a stretch of road, not posting it, then writing tickets to unsuspecting motorists.
If I was a local reporter, I would insist that Chief Knight, a public official, grant me an interview. I would ask if he is a licensed pilot. I assume he is not. I might then ask if he would be willing to spend fifteen or twenty minutes with a local seaplane instructor or other experienced, knowledgeable seaplane pilot and receive a briefing on the sources of information that a good pilot consults prior to conducting a flight. If he did, he would quickly see that the only things “imbecilic” or “stupid” about this affair are the failure of the city to properly disseminate the rule, and the chief’s own uncivil and unwarranted slander of the pilot to the media.
Sincerely,
Pierre L. Redmond
Gardnerville, NV
Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinance
Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:33 am
Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinance
Last edited by Pierre_R on Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:51 am
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local irdinanc
I've been following this story as well. I would hope that with no NOTAM/TFR establishing the lake as closed to seaplane operations the pilots wouldn't be held accountable.
Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:38 pm
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
The lake is listed in the state directory as open to seaplane ops. There was no TFR. I doubt that in fact the city actually has any jurisdiction over that water way.
I agree that the Chief of Police came across as a real jerk, and inept. Sorta gives you a warm fuzzy if you were a resident to think that's the leader of your police force.
MTV
I agree that the Chief of Police came across as a real jerk, and inept. Sorta gives you a warm fuzzy if you were a resident to think that's the leader of your police force.
MTV
Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:10 am
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
The lake is listed in the state directory as open to seaplane ops. There was no TFR. I doubt that in fact the city actually has any jurisdiction over that water way.
Brilliant question, Mike. I just wrote to that reporter again and suggested he ask that question.
Pierre
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:32 am
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
Guess there was a posted rule for that lake about 35HP and 10kts max,
http://www.chaskamn.com/DocumentCenter/Home/View/52
doubt it's enforced much, or much more than a small fine.
Also, for what it's worth, the pilot is a local HVAC business owner, PPL SES SEL MEL IFR and typed in a citation.
And agree 100%, local bubba cop sounds like a tool bag, and there is no real crime / violation here.
http://www.chaskamn.com/DocumentCenter/Home/View/52
doubt it's enforced much, or much more than a small fine.
Also, for what it's worth, the pilot is a local HVAC business owner, PPL SES SEL MEL IFR and typed in a citation.
And agree 100%, local bubba cop sounds like a tool bag, and there is no real crime / violation here.
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:51 am
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
Good find. I will forward to SPA.
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:29 am
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
Nothing will happen to the pilot, the real damage is that laypeople photographed and tweeted this because it appears the guy was "violating airspace." Presumed guilty...of something, we don't know what. Having too much fun is my guess.
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:09 pm
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
This sort of thing is not new. This past summer, on Father's Day, I picked up a friend in Auburn, and we landed on nearby Folsom Lake, as I have done many times over the past five years. We shut down and quietly drifted in the middle of the lake and did a little fishing (we both held valid CA fishing licenses).
Before long a patrol boat approached us and the deputy told us we were there illegally, that he could cite us, and we needed to leave. I asked him what his source of information was, as I had in my possession a current FAA San Francisco sectional, which depicted Folsom as a charted seaplane base. He said it was a state law but couldn't give me a specific section. He let us go. While the officer was not rude and we didn't get a ticket, having to be face to face with uniformed, armed LEO's on an otherwise pleasant Sunday afternoon kinda ruins the day.
When I got home, I sent an email inquiry to my contacts in the seaplane community. I was finally sent a copy of an email from an executive at Icon aircraft, who had been working with the State to clarify water landing rules. Icon of course was planning on having hundreds of new buyers doing training in the area. Apparently, the "compromise" that Icon and the State worked out included making Folsom available, but only after one applies for and is granted "permission". I haven't followed up and learned how to go about acquiring this special permission, which appears to be geared to deterring anyone but Icon trainers from using the lake. I think the next revision of the Sectional Chart is to have the "anchor" symbol deleted, but it wasn't at the time on the valid chart.
I have a couple of other similar stories where I did all due diligence prior to landing on a body of water, to be informed after arriving that it was "illegal". Once, the rule was to be only found on a little blue mimeographed tri-fold paper handout to local boaters and campers. That was on McClure reservoir, which does allow and even rent out 250 HP bass boats, so there is not a speed limit. Those types of rules appear to be discriminatory. I can accept a small, quiet lake passing a 5 MPH speed limit so that only small fishing boats are allowed, but if they allow a bass boat or water ski boat to go 50 MPH, then on what grounds can they forbid another "vessel" from doing the same, just because it has wings?
Before long a patrol boat approached us and the deputy told us we were there illegally, that he could cite us, and we needed to leave. I asked him what his source of information was, as I had in my possession a current FAA San Francisco sectional, which depicted Folsom as a charted seaplane base. He said it was a state law but couldn't give me a specific section. He let us go. While the officer was not rude and we didn't get a ticket, having to be face to face with uniformed, armed LEO's on an otherwise pleasant Sunday afternoon kinda ruins the day.
When I got home, I sent an email inquiry to my contacts in the seaplane community. I was finally sent a copy of an email from an executive at Icon aircraft, who had been working with the State to clarify water landing rules. Icon of course was planning on having hundreds of new buyers doing training in the area. Apparently, the "compromise" that Icon and the State worked out included making Folsom available, but only after one applies for and is granted "permission". I haven't followed up and learned how to go about acquiring this special permission, which appears to be geared to deterring anyone but Icon trainers from using the lake. I think the next revision of the Sectional Chart is to have the "anchor" symbol deleted, but it wasn't at the time on the valid chart.
I have a couple of other similar stories where I did all due diligence prior to landing on a body of water, to be informed after arriving that it was "illegal". Once, the rule was to be only found on a little blue mimeographed tri-fold paper handout to local boaters and campers. That was on McClure reservoir, which does allow and even rent out 250 HP bass boats, so there is not a speed limit. Those types of rules appear to be discriminatory. I can accept a small, quiet lake passing a 5 MPH speed limit so that only small fishing boats are allowed, but if they allow a bass boat or water ski boat to go 50 MPH, then on what grounds can they forbid another "vessel" from doing the same, just because it has wings?
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:12 pm
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
Also, Placerville Airport (next to Folsom Lake) had some weird guy who works for the city. He wanted to move my aircraft while I was in town. I told him it was not a good idea to touch my amphib and gave him stink eye. Reminded me of the film "Deliverance". Not going to Folsom or Palcerville in the near future.
I touched down at Folsom a few years ago. Saw other float planes too. No issue then.
I touched down at Folsom a few years ago. Saw other float planes too. No issue then.
CFII, MEI, CFISES, ATPME, IA/AP, RPPL, Ski&Amphib ops, RHC mechanic cert, RHC SC— 3000TT
Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:26 pm
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
There's a disturbing assumption that airplanes on public waters should or must be be illegal, and that's the root of the problem. I doubt any LEO who confronts you has even remotely considered the issue prior to seeing you, and are therefore armed only with this assumption. At this point you're pooched-- the individual does not subscribed to the "if there's no law prohibiting it, it must be okay" philosophy.
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Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:19 pm
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
I've been following this on the AOPA forum, and I looked on the Chaska PD's Facebook page and commented there. The Chief was way out of line, IMHO. Hazeltine Lake is not within the City's jurisdiction--it's "owned" by the state, and it's designated by the state as being open to seaplane use. That makes the City's hastily passed ordinance "void ab initio" due to lack of jurisdiction, and it makes any action to enforce it void as well.
That the Chaska PD arrested, detained, and charged the pilot and his passenger and temporarily took possession of the airplane opens very wide the real possibility of a successful federal lawsuit under 42 USCode Section 1983, which says:
Of course, it's up to the pilot and passenger whether to pursue such a remedy, but if it were me, I'd sure be tempted to do so. There's little to lose other than time and aggravation, because part of the remedy is attorney fees and costs, no matter how little or how much the recovered damages might be.
I guess that's what happens when the Chief of a 28 person police department decides to wear 4 stars on his collar, as if he's some sort of general. Andy and Barney did a better job of keeping the peace in Mayberry than it appears Chief Knight and his troops keep the peace in beautiful downtown Chaska.
Cary
That the Chaska PD arrested, detained, and charged the pilot and his passenger and temporarily took possession of the airplane opens very wide the real possibility of a successful federal lawsuit under 42 USCode Section 1983, which says:
Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress.
Of course, it's up to the pilot and passenger whether to pursue such a remedy, but if it were me, I'd sure be tempted to do so. There's little to lose other than time and aggravation, because part of the remedy is attorney fees and costs, no matter how little or how much the recovered damages might be.
I guess that's what happens when the Chief of a 28 person police department decides to wear 4 stars on his collar, as if he's some sort of general. Andy and Barney did a better job of keeping the peace in Mayberry than it appears Chief Knight and his troops keep the peace in beautiful downtown Chaska.
Cary
"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth..., put out my hand and touched the face of God." J.G. Magee
Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:57 pm
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
Hard to hold fingers still on this one. There are many, many professional LE folks and I appreciate their contribution to society. And there are so many more who could not get into a State or Federal LE gig or on with a real municipal force. They can't get into the Army or Marine Corps. So they become local bumfuck PD or SD or prison guards. These departments do a poor job of vetting candidates and don't pay for shit so they end up with Rambo. God forbid they stay with the department long enough and end up chief. This is an example.
No offense to the pros out there. Again, there are many and they have a damned tough job.
No offense to the pros out there. Again, there are many and they have a damned tough job.
Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:27 pm
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
OK, EVERYONE STEP BACK AND TAKE A DEEP BREATH!
So we have a floatplane on the news, web, and in the papers. In a pissing contest everyone gets wet!!! Turn this into a great event!!! Local law made a simple mistake, BIG PICTURE WAS, PEOPLE LIVING THE DREAM!!! Turn it around to what FUN people can have with aircraft. Use this as an example of the FUN YOU CAN HAVE WITH A PLANE!!! Not how it is just a pain in the ass to fly!! Remember local law dogs put up with more crap than anyone can imagine, everyone on there ass to keep complete control of everything that happens with the event and some dude drops in with a plane. Call to promoters can make this a positive thing (check it out people even fly in to watch the event!!).
Todays world has a lot of people that think you can control life and all the events that will happen around you. WE HAVE TO MAKE THEM FEEL SAFE AROUND AIRCRAFT!!! It is very hard to combat the local/national news senationalism, but it can be done. Someone need to take local reporter up on a flight and land on the lake, same with mayor, cops, park supervisor. TURN THIS INTO A POSITIVE NOT A NEGATIVE EVENT!!!
I do 20-30 local flights for friends, family, pilots, young and old every year, when they get done they say it was the highlight of there visit to Alaska!! They go back home understanding aircraft fly just fine at 10 ft AGL.
It was the early pilots and pilots/crews of WWII that made young and old look to the noise in the sky and dream. We have to keep that dream alive! To do that we have to share if not by event by story and example.
DENNY
So we have a floatplane on the news, web, and in the papers. In a pissing contest everyone gets wet!!! Turn this into a great event!!! Local law made a simple mistake, BIG PICTURE WAS, PEOPLE LIVING THE DREAM!!! Turn it around to what FUN people can have with aircraft. Use this as an example of the FUN YOU CAN HAVE WITH A PLANE!!! Not how it is just a pain in the ass to fly!! Remember local law dogs put up with more crap than anyone can imagine, everyone on there ass to keep complete control of everything that happens with the event and some dude drops in with a plane. Call to promoters can make this a positive thing (check it out people even fly in to watch the event!!).
Todays world has a lot of people that think you can control life and all the events that will happen around you. WE HAVE TO MAKE THEM FEEL SAFE AROUND AIRCRAFT!!! It is very hard to combat the local/national news senationalism, but it can be done. Someone need to take local reporter up on a flight and land on the lake, same with mayor, cops, park supervisor. TURN THIS INTO A POSITIVE NOT A NEGATIVE EVENT!!!
I do 20-30 local flights for friends, family, pilots, young and old every year, when they get done they say it was the highlight of there visit to Alaska!! They go back home understanding aircraft fly just fine at 10 ft AGL.
It was the early pilots and pilots/crews of WWII that made young and old look to the noise in the sky and dream. We have to keep that dream alive! To do that we have to share if not by event by story and example.
DENNY
DENNY
Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:06 am
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
Denny,
Great ideas.
The problem is, this WAS turned into a negative event by a "responsible" law enforcement officer, in the eyes of the public.
Once that was done....and this hit the national media, any correction or positive outcome will never make the same media splash.
Firing a dipshit Chief of Police or at least some meaningful discipline might, however.
The old saying that "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" should apply equally to LE personnel as to citizens. There should be consequences for this sort of ineptitude.
Remember, these folks are armed, and it doesn't take much of a stretch to turn something like this into a real tragedy. One mistake by a citizen may be no big deal, but one mistake by an LE officer can be deadly.
At the very least, the police should have been ASKING someone whether the City actually has the authority to regulate operations on that lake before taking egregious actions.
If I were the pilot, everyone on that city council would be getting a lesson on jurisdictions, and I'd be demanding a public apology from the police.
At the very least.
MTV
Great ideas.
The problem is, this WAS turned into a negative event by a "responsible" law enforcement officer, in the eyes of the public.
Once that was done....and this hit the national media, any correction or positive outcome will never make the same media splash.
Firing a dipshit Chief of Police or at least some meaningful discipline might, however.
The old saying that "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" should apply equally to LE personnel as to citizens. There should be consequences for this sort of ineptitude.
Remember, these folks are armed, and it doesn't take much of a stretch to turn something like this into a real tragedy. One mistake by a citizen may be no big deal, but one mistake by an LE officer can be deadly.
At the very least, the police should have been ASKING someone whether the City actually has the authority to regulate operations on that lake before taking egregious actions.
If I were the pilot, everyone on that city council would be getting a lesson on jurisdictions, and I'd be demanding a public apology from the police.
At the very least.
MTV
Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:56 am
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
Cary wrote:I've been following this on the AOPA forum, and I looked on the Chaska PD's Facebook page and commented there. The Chief was way out of line, IMHO. Hazeltine Lake is not within the City's jurisdiction--it's "owned" by the state, and it's designated by the state as being open to seaplane use. That makes the City's hastily passed ordinance "void ab initio" due to lack of jurisdiction, and it makes any action to enforce it void as well.
That the Chaska PD arrested, detained, and charged the pilot and his passenger and temporarily took possession of the airplane opens very wide the real possibility of a successful federal lawsuit under 42 USCode Section 1983, which says:Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress.
Of course, it's up to the pilot and passenger whether to pursue such a remedy, but if it were me, I'd sure be tempted to do so. There's little to lose other than time and aggravation, because part of the remedy is attorney fees and costs, no matter how little or how much the recovered damages might be.
I guess that's what happens when the Chief of a 28 person police department decides to wear 4 stars on his collar, as if he's some sort of general. Andy and Barney did a better job of keeping the peace in Mayberry than it appears Chief Knight and his troops keep the peace in beautiful downtown Chaska.
Cary
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:02 am
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
NineThreeKilo wrote:and temporarily took possession of the airplane opens very wide the real possibility of a successful federal lawsuit
Also, forcing the pilot to leave his plane in the middle of the lake, secured only by a small, lightweight anchor, violates a local Chaska ordinance:
(d) No person shall leave any watercraft unattended except in a specifically designated area for mooring, anchoring or beaching.
Looks like the police caused a separate violation by forcing the pilot to leave his "watercraft" unattended. That is, if the Chaska ordinances even have any validity, as you have properly challenged.
I never leave my amphib unless it is secured to a known secure mooring buoy, or secured with multiple lines to a known good dock. Doing otherwise leaves you open to civil action if/when your drifting airplane collides with and damages property.
Pierre
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:38 am
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
Lawsuits...the lowest form of bullying.
So a small town police chief is in charge of security for a high profile sporting event in an age of almost monthly mass shootings, and he gets a bit too wound-up when the unexpected happens.
It's an unfortunate event and he's at least partly in the wrong, but educating him makes more sense than suing him, at least to me.
Call me Un-American, but I absolutely believe our culture of lawsuits is a bigger threat to the wellbeing of our society than any other single factor. It's a fantastic and enormous waste of time, money, and energy, and we ALL pay for it.
Unhappy with your insurance premium? Thank a lawyer. Not getting your tax dollars' worth of services? Thank a lawyer. Unhappy with oppressive regulation and a loss of personal freedom because our laws are written to protect the lowest common denominator? Thank a lawyer.
Most regulations are written to shelter the governing agency from lawsuit, and most lawsuits are nothing but a shallow and obvious attempt to get money without working for it. That we as a society not only tolerate that behavior but actually embrace it is just astounding to me.
Apologies to any and all lawyers I've offended. Some do good work, and some good does come from some lawsuits, but by an overwhelmingly huge factor, the American culture of lawsuits is just BULLSHIT.
The only funny part of the pilot suing the police force would be that his own tax dollars would be used to hire the lawyers to represent the agency he's suing. With any luck they'd raise taxes because of it.
So a small town police chief is in charge of security for a high profile sporting event in an age of almost monthly mass shootings, and he gets a bit too wound-up when the unexpected happens.
It's an unfortunate event and he's at least partly in the wrong, but educating him makes more sense than suing him, at least to me.
Call me Un-American, but I absolutely believe our culture of lawsuits is a bigger threat to the wellbeing of our society than any other single factor. It's a fantastic and enormous waste of time, money, and energy, and we ALL pay for it.
Unhappy with your insurance premium? Thank a lawyer. Not getting your tax dollars' worth of services? Thank a lawyer. Unhappy with oppressive regulation and a loss of personal freedom because our laws are written to protect the lowest common denominator? Thank a lawyer.
Most regulations are written to shelter the governing agency from lawsuit, and most lawsuits are nothing but a shallow and obvious attempt to get money without working for it. That we as a society not only tolerate that behavior but actually embrace it is just astounding to me.
Apologies to any and all lawyers I've offended. Some do good work, and some good does come from some lawsuits, but by an overwhelmingly huge factor, the American culture of lawsuits is just BULLSHIT.
The only funny part of the pilot suing the police force would be that his own tax dollars would be used to hire the lawyers to represent the agency he's suing. With any luck they'd raise taxes because of it.
Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:01 pm
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
Hammer wrote:Lawsuits...the lowest form of bullying.
So a small town police chief is in charge of security for a high profile sporting event in an age of almost monthly mass shootings, and he gets a bit too wound-up when the unexpected happens.
It's an unfortunate event and he's at least partly in the wrong, but educating him makes more sense than suing him, at least to me.
Call me Un-American, but I absolutely believe our culture of lawsuits is a bigger threat to the wellbeing of our society than any other single factor. It's a fantastic and enormous waste of time, money, and energy, and we ALL pay for it.
Unhappy with your insurance premium? Thank a lawyer. Not getting your tax dollars' worth of services? Thank a lawyer. Unhappy with oppressive regulation and a loss of personal freedom because our laws are written to protect the lowest common denominator? Thank a lawyer.
Most regulations are written to shelter the governing agency from lawsuit, and most lawsuits are nothing but a shallow and obvious attempt to get money without working for it. That we as a society not only tolerate that behavior but actually embrace it is just astounding to me.
Apologies to any and all lawyers I've offended. Some do good work, and some good does come from some lawsuits, but by an overwhelmingly huge factor, the American culture of lawsuits is just BULLSHIT.
The only funny part of the pilot suing the police force would be that his own tax dollars would be used to hire the lawyers to represent the agency he's suing. With any luck they'd raise taxes because of it.
I was taught as a kid you never let a bully get away with pushing you around, you make a stand, else things will only get worse.
Someone needs to put that chief in his place, and in this case that can only lawfully be done through the courts.
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:22 pm
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
Hammer wrote:Lawsuits...the lowest form of bullying.
So a small town police chief is in charge of security for a high profile sporting event in an age of almost monthly mass shootings, and he gets a bit too wound-up when the unexpected happens.
It's an unfortunate event and he's at least partly in the wrong, but educating him makes more sense than suing him, at least to me.
Call me Un-American, but I absolutely believe our culture of lawsuits is a bigger threat to the wellbeing of our society than any other single factor. It's a fantastic and enormous waste of time, money, and energy, and we ALL pay for it.
Unhappy with your insurance premium? Thank a lawyer. Not getting your tax dollars' worth of services? Thank a lawyer. Unhappy with oppressive regulation and a loss of personal freedom because our laws are written to protect the lowest common denominator? Thank a lawyer.
Most regulations are written to shelter the governing agency from lawsuit, and most lawsuits are nothing but a shallow and obvious attempt to get money without working for it. That we as a society not only tolerate that behavior but actually embrace it is just astounding to me.
Apologies to any and all lawyers I've offended. Some do good work, and some good does come from some lawsuits, but by an overwhelmingly huge factor, the American culture of lawsuits is just BULLSHIT.
The only funny part of the pilot suing the police force would be that his own tax dollars would be used to hire the lawyers to represent the agency he's suing. With any luck they'd raise taxes because of it.
I disagree. A lawyer provides a service to a client. They don't go out on their own on a mission to sue.
We all have an asshole. None of us really like it much, until we need it.
Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:48 pm
Re: Pilot charged with violating little-known local ordinanc
Don't worry, Hammer, I'm not offended--I'm retired! 
But whether you like it or not, sometimes a lawsuit is the only way to get the attention of a public servant who oversteps his authority--or in this case, an entire city council which has overstepped its jurisdictional authority, along with its bumbling police chief.
Does anyone really think a nice request to the city council and Chief Knight for an apology will accomplish anything? That would be just about as successful as telling a 3 year old who has just whacked his 2 year old sister with a stick, "You made poor choices."
I will say this: once in a great while a public apology followed by appropriate internal discipline works, but only if they can be pressured into doing so. Example: I once represented a teenager who had been physically assaulted by a teacher who was also a part-time gym teacher. Frankly, the kid needed some discipline--he'd made some lewd comment to some girls in the school's hallway. But the teacher over-reacted, by picking the kid up by the shirt and slamming him into the lockers, while using some threatening language that a Parris Island DI would have been reluctant to use. The parents went to the school and demanded that the teacher be disciplined and apologize to their kid. The principal refused.
So they called me. Since they'd already been to the school seeking an apology, a letter from me would have been fruitless, so I recommended a lawsuit as the only effective way to get the attention of the teacher and the principal. Long story short, we went through all the procedural mishmash of suing a governmental entity short of the actual filing the suit before I received a call from an old friend, a lady who'd I'd known since Sunday school when we were pre-schoolers, who was the attorney representing the school.
She asked what we really wanted (we'd asked for some outrageous dollars in damages). I told her we wanted 3 things, a written apology from the teacher and the principal, and for the teacher to be suspended from his gym teacher responsibilities for a year, plus my attorney fees to date, which were only a few hundred dollars at that point--and we'd give up any monetary damages. Her first reaction was that none of that would happen, so I said, "Fine, we'll be filing the lawsuit on Friday and it should be in your hands next week." On Thursday she called, told me if we would hold off filing until the following week, we'd likely get what we wanted. We did, my clients were satisfied, I got paid, and the school district was spared the embarrassment of the publicity which would have followed the filing of the lawsuit. And the teacher learned a powerful lesson in anger management--losing his part-time gym teacher position cost him part of his salary for the year.
Unfortunately, the common response that we hear when we ask for an apology from someone who has wronged us is "so sue me". Whether it's politics or just the way our society has gone, the idea of doing what is right, owning up to our mistakes, and apologizing to those who suffer from our mistakes, seems to be foreign to too many.
Cary
But whether you like it or not, sometimes a lawsuit is the only way to get the attention of a public servant who oversteps his authority--or in this case, an entire city council which has overstepped its jurisdictional authority, along with its bumbling police chief.
Does anyone really think a nice request to the city council and Chief Knight for an apology will accomplish anything? That would be just about as successful as telling a 3 year old who has just whacked his 2 year old sister with a stick, "You made poor choices."
I will say this: once in a great while a public apology followed by appropriate internal discipline works, but only if they can be pressured into doing so. Example: I once represented a teenager who had been physically assaulted by a teacher who was also a part-time gym teacher. Frankly, the kid needed some discipline--he'd made some lewd comment to some girls in the school's hallway. But the teacher over-reacted, by picking the kid up by the shirt and slamming him into the lockers, while using some threatening language that a Parris Island DI would have been reluctant to use. The parents went to the school and demanded that the teacher be disciplined and apologize to their kid. The principal refused.
So they called me. Since they'd already been to the school seeking an apology, a letter from me would have been fruitless, so I recommended a lawsuit as the only effective way to get the attention of the teacher and the principal. Long story short, we went through all the procedural mishmash of suing a governmental entity short of the actual filing the suit before I received a call from an old friend, a lady who'd I'd known since Sunday school when we were pre-schoolers, who was the attorney representing the school.
She asked what we really wanted (we'd asked for some outrageous dollars in damages). I told her we wanted 3 things, a written apology from the teacher and the principal, and for the teacher to be suspended from his gym teacher responsibilities for a year, plus my attorney fees to date, which were only a few hundred dollars at that point--and we'd give up any monetary damages. Her first reaction was that none of that would happen, so I said, "Fine, we'll be filing the lawsuit on Friday and it should be in your hands next week." On Thursday she called, told me if we would hold off filing until the following week, we'd likely get what we wanted. We did, my clients were satisfied, I got paid, and the school district was spared the embarrassment of the publicity which would have followed the filing of the lawsuit. And the teacher learned a powerful lesson in anger management--losing his part-time gym teacher position cost him part of his salary for the year.
Unfortunately, the common response that we hear when we ask for an apology from someone who has wronged us is "so sue me". Whether it's politics or just the way our society has gone, the idea of doing what is right, owning up to our mistakes, and apologizing to those who suffer from our mistakes, seems to be foreign to too many.
Cary
"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth..., put out my hand and touched the face of God." J.G. Magee
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