In response to an aerobatic pilot who says the type of flying YOU do ... is "crazy"?

1st - I hope I'm posting this in the right place; please someone enlighten and direct me if I'm not? It's just that the forum title seemed to lend itself to visions of hanging around a campfire and offering you S'Mores while I ask you "hopefully" interesting questions that the answers to will amuse YOU all; and will help me in expanding my perspectives and understanding as I write ...

And 2nd - as a little background for the question? I have - I consider myself blessed to be able to say - interviewed some of the top aerobatic flyers in the U.S. for this project. And since my book was originally inspired by "mountain/backcountry" flyers, understandably the subject comes up usually during my talks with these guys and gals.

And I always have to laugh ~ many of them genuinely ~ think the type of flying YOU all do ... is nuts.

So now I'm gonna sit back and see what all you have to say in response to that! (and thanks everyone in advance for sharing your thoughts; and for letting me "hang out" here with you. I have a great deal of respect for the kind of flying you all do, and what it takes ~ to do it well)

Flywriter wrote:In response to an aerobatic pilot who says the type of flying YOU do ... is "crazy"?

So now I'm gonna sit back and see what all you have to say in response to that! (and thanks everyone in advance for sharing your thoughts; and for letting me "hang out" here with you. I have a great deal of respect for the kind of flying you all do, and what it takes ~ to do it well)

I would say that each flying environment presents it's own dangers and demands it's own skills to operate safely. Whether it be IFR, Aerobatic, Ag spray, Helicopter, etc. the skills needed in each are different. Those of us who fly in these different areas think that the others are crazy, but when it comes down to it, each type of flying demands a different skill. For those of us who posess the skills and abilities to operate in one of the aforementioned flight environments it is not any more "nuts" than those who posess the skills to fly in the other environments. An average Joe Ag pilot would be nuts to try to safely compete in aerobatics and the same goes for an average Joe bush pilot. It is only "nuts" to those who find it different than their normal environment.

Proper training, equipment, and state of mind is required for any flight environment...even the basic 152 on a paved runway.

Let me add one bit of "perspective" real quick too; and then I'll sit back and see what more you all have to say ~ do know that the discussion was along the line of their thinking you nuts in an "admirable and respectful" manner.

One of the main reasons they gave for their feeling that way about what you do, is I thought, telling of the diffence in - shall we say, focus - that the different "types" of flying you do requires.

But I don't want to share it yet; want to see what you all come up with first in your thoughts before I give away the store!

Jr.CubBuilder wrote:Besides which is more crazy flying inverted over a runway at an airshow and hoping the motor doesn't quit, or flying over an empty mountain range and hoping the motor doesn't quit? At least we get some nice scenery and a chance pick a good looking spot to splatter in.

Good to see that the "sense of humor" theme I consistently find in pilots continues to hold true here!

Flywriter wrote:

Jr.CubBuilder wrote:Besides which is more crazy flying inverted over a runway at an airshow and hoping the motor doesn't quit, or flying over an empty mountain range and hoping the motor doesn't quit? At least we get some nice scenery and a chance pick a good looking spot to splatter in.

Good to see that the "sense of humor" theme I consistently find in pilots continues to hold true here!

Yep JCB, VFR/IFR, backcountry or cross country just keep the fan turning and sound coming out of those 6 cylinders.

Some folks say, "What, you fly? You gotta be nuts!" Same said for motorcycle riders, sled heads, sky divers... Wait jumping out of a perfectly good airplane! They are nuts!

C ya, Bub

Flywriter wrote:In response to an aerobatic pilot who says the type of flying YOU do ... is "crazy"?

So, not your flavor of "adrenaline rush" eh?

I'd tell him to stop patronizing me. Top shelf aerobatic pilots are precision pilots with tailwheel skills, and can make their ship do anything they want. That's what they focus on. When's the last time you saw a guide in a Supercub taking any additional risks, like flying on knife-edge 30 feet above the runway?

The only ingredient that could possibly bring backcountry flying into the same realm of risk that aerobatics presents is the uncertainty factor. Weather and airstrip conditions are huge variables that go along with any type of XC flying.

Flywriter

Let me see. We spend many thousands of dollars. We fly over very unfriendly terrain. We lose people permanently every now and then.

WE do all of this so that we can go and live like the homeless.

I think we are nuts. I love it.

flyer

Flywriter wrote:Let me add one bit of "perspective" real quick too;
One of the main reasons they gave for their feeling that way about what you do, is I thought, telling of the diffence in - shall we say, focus - that the different "types" of flying you do requires.

We don't wear parachutes?

1SeventyZ wrote:I'd tell him to stop patronizing me. Top shelf aerobatic pilots are precision pilots with tailwheel skills, and can make their ship do anything they want. That's what they focus on. When's the last time you saw a guide in a Supercub taking any additional risks, like flying on knife-edge 30 feet above the runway?

The only ingredient that could possibly bring backcountry flying into the same realm of risk that aerobatics presents is the uncertainty factor. Weather and airstrip conditions are huge variables that go along with any type of XC flying.

OK.....don't want to ruffle feathers so now it's time to explain more!

What surprised ME ... is this: The statement was indeed made (and this was in conversation with "2" aerobatic pilots, this particular conversation...although the theme came up other times as well) that "Mountain/backcountry flyers? Now they're crazy!" With the following explanation --- they respect the heck out of you guys, but they feel ... this is what gets me, and it's all tied in with perception ... that what THEY do is ultimately safer because there are fewer variables; what they do is controlled, controlled, controlled - they practice, practice, practice in their "box" - over and over and over again.

You guys? They see as having to deal with many more "uncontrolled variables" i.e. sudden downdrafts etc., then they do.

And then I read what you just wrote above and smiled; interesting how the mind-sets go ... knowing what I do about both ... your answer above, didn't surprise me at all.

And I agree....the statement COULD be conceived as patronizing if said with that intent ~ but you guys should know the aerobatic pilots I spoke with genuinely do have a lot of respect for the kind of flying you do.

And fwiw? Two of them were genuinely disappointed that they have other commitments they can't get out of ... and can't make Sparky Imeson and Rob Hunter's Seminar on the 17th....

Flywriter,

I'm struggling to figure out what your point is. You could talk to virtually anyone in a specific walk of life who has a very different perspective on another's vocation or avocation.

A New York City cab driver would probably think that someone who camps in a tent in bear country is nuts. I sure think being a NYC cab driver is a pretty hairy business.

Isn't that just a function of human nature?

What am I missing?

Oh, yeah--constant keyboarding can cause carpal tunnel. Therefore writers are nuts.... .

MTV

mtv wrote:Flywriter,

I'm struggling to figure out what your point is. You could talk to virtually anyone in a specific walk of life who has a very different perspective on another's vocation or avocation.

A New York City cab driver would probably think that someone who camps in a tent in bear country is nuts. I sure think being a NYC cab driver is a pretty hairy business.

Isn't that just a function of human nature?

What am I missing?

Oh, yeah--constant keyboarding can cause carpal tunnel. Therefore writers are nuts.... .

MTV

You're not missing anything MTV ~ right on all counts ... including the last statement about us being nuts!

My stirring this up and getting YOUR thoughts as pilots who do what you do ... is admittedly selfish on my part; helps ME ... write better. To hone in on the specificities of why/how an aerobatic pilot "thinks"the way he/she does - then do the same with a mountain/backcountry pilot, gives me a much better platform to write authentically about ---- pilots. I do the same with test pilots; fighter etc., etc. -- within the specific categories, there are fascinating (to me) thoughts to explore unique to each discipline.

I agree ... for some you'll go "well duh" and why answer. I respect that. Just know that those who do offer personal thoughts/perspective always, always end up adding to my knowledge base of what makes a true "pilot" ....tick(I have no interest in writing about cab drivers however )

Flywriter,

I have a great video that might give you perspective on Mt flying. I was going to Minam Lodge for breakfast. My wife was taking the video of the long approach. Just as I was at the end of the strip and to the point where I wanted to touch down there was a horse/mule in a shadow on the runway. I had to adjust my decent and pick a spot a little further down the runway. I over flew the strip to see if there were any animals, i.e. elk, deer, horses on the strip and did not see the horse.

With that in mind I do agree that Mt flying does have its uncontrollable variables. I wish I could post the video but it is about 180 megs. I am not sure how to make it a smaller file. If anyone ahs any ideas let me know.

Jr.CubBuilder wrote:Personally I don't see the appeal of aerobatic flight, it looks like all work and no fun. I respect any pilot who can be that much a master of their plane, but honestly they're pouring thousands of dollars into air machines to go flop around and make themselves sick.

The few aerobatic folks that I know, flop their machines around to pump up their egos. But then again, I know some off-roaders who do the same.

Gump

When I took a basic aerobatics course, I wanted to learn to flop around to see what it was like to do bad things with a plane, non-flying things, the kind that can kill you.

I was talked though dutch rolls, rudder stalls, loops, rolls, snap rolls, and spins...so many spins. I put in 5 or 6 sessions and walked away from every one queasy. It expanded my understanding of the flight envelope invaluably. I would never think of doing a casual snap roll on a scenic flight, or intentionally spinning, but I understand it and know how to do it. That's enough for me. I'm glad that stuff is no longer a mystery.

I think there is a type of pilot that is attracted to that stuff though purely for the show-off factor, like Gump said-- it's an ego pumper. I like to think that the guys attracted to backcountry flying are trying to get away from being a spectacle, to escape the eyes of the crowd. That may be a little optimistic though. Perhaps we're just sick of looking at everyone.

The aerobatic pilots are also a part of the brotherhood/sisterhood. I do not want to hear any more negative stuff about them. They do precision flying that most of us could never do. Your negative remarks shows some egotism on your part. They share the same passion of flying and planes.

flyer

flyer wrote:The aerobatic pilots are also a part of the brotherhood/sisterhood. I do not want to hear any more negative stuff about them. They do precision flying that most of us could never do. Your negative remarks shows some egotism on your part. They share the same passion of flying and planes.

flyer

I wasn't talking about aerobatic pilots in general. I was speaking about specific people that I know personally. They are of the "Hey you all, watch this" variety. Noise and being the center of attention is their main focus in most things they do. Same as some bush flyers I know, who care more for the bragging rights than they do the actual flying in to the backcountry.

The "Brotherhood" is full of all kinds of people. Some good, some bad, and a few just a tad different.

Gump

Gump

I agree with you.


flyer

Gump,

I'm trying real hard not to take that "and a few just different" comment too personally .

MTV

mtv wrote:Gump,

I'm trying real hard not to take that "and a few just different" comment too personally .

MTV

If you're lookin' for normal you're not gonna find it here!!!! That's why I enjoy this site so, and it's my computer "home." You guys are as FUBAR as I am.

Gump