Hi all ... she's baaaaack

1st ~ just want to say I had a great time helping out with the Sparky/Rob Seminar at 069 last month. A real pleasure to meet some of you in person, spend time with a great group of people, and to learn that much more about what you all do.

Taking a brief break from working on the book ... I'm trying to write an article, and was wondering if I could get your thoughts on this. It's obvious that Zane has created a very active and real "Backcountry Pilot" community here on-line; great thing to see and it's obvious how valuable it is to you all as pilots with a common interest in this type of flying.

I'm wondering about your non-cyber communities; do you have them at your local airports; are they active; do you participate; do you reach out to the non-aviation community around your airport; do you ... care????

Seriously. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Obviously, you guys and your penchant (a great one!) for getting REALLY away from it all and joining up at places like JC to share your enthusiasm for the unique type of flying you do ... speaks to the fact that you do find a community amongst yourselves valuable.

But does that include your local airports for those of you who have them? (I'm gonna assume that you real mountain pilots with your own tucked away havens all to yourselves probably consider the "critters" to be your community ~ and what ya'll do with them is entirely NONE of my business! )

My thanks in advance as always ... for your time and thoughts!

I belong to both the AOPA and EAA. The AOPA because of it's political activism on the pilot's behalf and a great online flight planner. The EAA for its activism to but also because of its support for local chapters.

My local EAA chapter has a nice hangar to work in on my home field and all the guys and gals are very active. Right now we are building a Zenith 701 as a chapter project, a Commonwealth is being restored, and a Pietenpol is just being finished up. We run four Young Eagle events a year, have a chapter picnic and a holiday dinner. Once a month during the winter we have a "movie night" and watch stuff like "Big Rock and Long Props". One of the guys on the this forum sent me several DVD's he made of flying in Minnesota. They are GREAT and we are working our way through them.

We have a "group fly" coordinator that emails everyone that signs up, destinations each weekend. Even if it just a breakfast or lunch run. There are always extra seats so it is not necessary to have a plane to fly. Just show up. Last year a couple of us flew out to Oshkosh and slept under the wings for a week.

We have an unwritten policy that if a non-flying airport neighbor shows up we try and offer them a ride. Kind of a instantaneous community outreach program. Keeps the locals friendly, and who knows, maybe gets them interested in flying. I flew one 18 year old girl last year when her mom stopped by to see if someone could give her daughter a first ride on her birthday. The girl worked three jobs that summer to help pay for college AND lessons for a private pilot's license! That was almost as rewarding as the surprise hot cinnamon-apple pie the mom gave me for the flight!

I go to the monthly old-timers dinner, did the EAA Flight Advisor until the schedule got away from me, sat on the advisory board for the local public schools A&P Vocational program. I try to help out with advice (not always good) on aviation as a career. I had so many people help me in so many different ways, I am trying to pay it back a little.

I belong to my local chapter of Antique Aircraft Owners association. Antique refers to the planes but in fact also Identifies the majority of the members. Usually a bunch of us fly out to some airport on Sunday morning for breakfast and cheaper gas. Just about any airport has cheaper gas than Gillespie since there seems to be collusion between the gas sellers on our field. It's almost a dollar more a gallon than Brown field and others. The sunday morning fly out is the equivalent of the 100 dollar hamburger lunch. Only now adays it's almost 200 if you go any distance. I also used to belong to the Short wing piper club when I had my tripacer. A couple of us on the field belonged to that and the SO cal chapter had numerous fly ins and get togethers. They still do but I let my membership slide when I got the Maule. We unofficially called it the Short Pecker Piper club but it was a great organization.

Jr.CubBuilder wrote:There is a lunch time gang of older (mostly retired) pilots that meet at lunch. I only go about once or twice a month because I'm always broke either from a repair bill (the joy of an antique) or a big ugly gas bill.

There's also on any given sunny day at some point (usually before lunch) some of the same guys loitering around a hanger telling stories, that's when I see them the most sharing a few chuckles.

There are some people that make really commendable efforts to reach out to the community via the Young Eagles program or the Women in Aviation pancake feed etc. I don't consider myself a good enough pilot at this point to fly someone else's kids around so I'm not involved with that.

I suspect from what I keep hearing about these "lunch/breakfast" gangs, especially of older pilots, that gather at GA airports ... that a whole 'nother pretty interesting book could be written just from evesdropping on some of the stories that must get told!

Skystrider wrote:I belong to both the AOPA and EAA. The AOPA because of it's political activism on the pilot's behalf and a great online flight planner. The EAA for its activism to but also because of its support for local chapters.

My local EAA chapter has a nice hangar to work in on my home field and all the guys and gals are very active. Right now we are building a Zenith 701 as a chapter project, a Commonwealth is being restored, and a Pietenpol is just being finished up. We run four Young Eagle events a year, have a chapter picnic and a holiday dinner. Once a month during the winter we have a "movie night" and watch stuff like "Big Rock and Long Props". One of the guys on the this forum sent me several DVD's he made of flying in Minnesota. They are GREAT and we are working our way through them.

We have a "group fly" coordinator that emails everyone that signs up, destinations each weekend. Even if it just a breakfast or lunch run. There are always extra seats so it is not necessary to have a plane to fly. Just show up. Last year a couple of us flew out to Oshkosh and slept under the wings for a week.

We have an unwritten policy that if a non-flying airport neighbor shows up we try and offer them a ride. Kind of a instantaneous community outreach program. Keeps the locals friendly, and who knows, maybe gets them interested in flying. I flew one 18 year old girl last year when her mom stopped by to see if someone could give her daughter a first ride on her birthday. The girl worked three jobs that summer to help pay for college AND lessons for a private pilot's license! That was almost as rewarding as the surprise hot cinnamon-apple pie the mom gave me for the flight!

Thanks for this Skystrider ... EAA is obviously an effective group when active at an airport; good idea about the "group fly" co-ordinator (like that, don't need a plane ... there's extra seats just show up part; I gotta check into that around here ) .... and of course your story about the 18 year old is a gem. There you go ~ the ones with the passion and the "want to" ... just need to be given the chance to discover that is the case!

d.grimm wrote:I go to the monthly old-timers dinner, did the EAA Flight Advisor until the schedule got away from me, sat on the advisory board for the local public schools A&P Vocational program. I try to help out with advice (not always good) on aviation as a career. I had so many people help me in so many different ways, I am trying to pay it back a little.

And without that "pay it forward" mentality to help especially youth get involved ... with the pressures on it today ... I think sadly GA could end up being a dying breed. People with your kind of attitude go a long way toward giving it every chance it has ....

iceman wrote:I belong to my local chapter of Antique Aircraft Owners association. Antique refers to the planes but in fact also Identifies the majority of the members. Usually a bunch of us fly out to some airport on Sunday morning for breakfast and cheaper gas. Just about any airport has cheaper gas than Gillespie since there seems to be collusion between the gas sellers on our field. It's almost a dollar more a gallon than Brown field and others. The sunday morning fly out is the equivalent of the 100 dollar hamburger lunch. Only now adays it's almost 200 if you go any distance. I also used to belong to the Short wing piper club when I had my tripacer. A couple of us on the field belonged to that and the SO cal chapter had numerous fly ins and get togethers. They still do but I let my membership slide when I got the Maule. We unofficially called it the Short Pecker Piper club but it was a great organization.

Hey Iceman! Thanks for the input. And you guys aren't antiques You're "seasoned veterans"!

This whole gas thing is really bad. Interesting that some non-flying friends who know what I'm working on and how I feel about aviation, make comments to me like "oh, those rich private pilots aren't going to have any problems with gas prices." It amazes me that mind-set that is out there about you all ... if you fly ... you're automatically rich! (I know ~ if only right??? )

I educate them that yes ~ there are some I've met that obviously don't exactly have it tough in the dinero dep't ... but there are also many out there that simply make flying a priority in their lives; sacrifice to make it happen ... and struggle with the financial aspects like anyone else would that does something that costs in this day and age.

The sad part of all that? Is how hard the financial aspects of GA today is making it for youth and others to get involved...not sure what the solution to that is - if there is one. Other than the spirit of sharing & generosity that comes through when I put questions like this out there to the aviation community.....

As to empty seats on Sunday if you make it down here any time just call and I'll get you a seat in any ones ride for the breakfast. Or mine if you want. As to the rich part. I'm a window coverings contractor. I'm a licensed and bonded sub contractor who installs draperies and window coverings for the interior stores and decorators in the SD area. I'm not rich but I do well. My first plane was a used Tripacer that I paid 10,500 for. That's less than just about any car on the road. I flew it for 9 years on a shoestring budget cause there were always other stuff that needed tending to . Compare that to some of the land yachts that tow a dozen toys to the desert or a 30,000 dollar boat to some lake and who'se the rich one....

In light of the rapidly rising costs of our chosen mode of transportation, I had the following conversation with a friend who flies both for a living (helicopters primarily) and an antique for recreation (C195). He made an interesting observation; There are those that will fly no matter what. Either they have a budget that allows a lot of lieniency or will simply budget for it somehow, then there are those that will hang it up. It all depends on what drives you. I too have people give me "that" look when they say "Oh, you own your own plane?" Usually with a slight cant to the proboscis and a matching inflection to the tone. They don't usually understand that in order to do this, I have to be pretty resourcful, drive an old Toyota with a bunch of miles on the odometer and do as much work as possible myself. There are those that can afford the luxury, but there are as many of us that earn it too.
Then there's this place, Alaska. I have a pre-statehood map above my desk. There are almost the same number of roads that were here about fifty years ago. Aviation is essential here unless you're willing or able to confine yourself to the Road System. My Maule is the family wagon. There have been several months when I put more hours on the plane that I do on the truck. Therefore it gets that much more attention when we budget for our house.

This "rich pilot" crap gets my goat Like many here my plane cost quite a lot less than my truck and is just as important in this locale.

My son in law has a 172 in Idaho and my daughter is a traveling nurse so he flies her to work 2-300 miles and back once a week. The miles per gallon cost is a hell of a lot less than their truck or even the car and gets it done a lot faster and in some cases safer. How much fun do you think it is to drive from Challis to Boise up over Stanley and sun valley in the winter or even the spring or fall for that matter

I envy those of you who have a group of flyers to yack with. Here ther are lots of pilots and most of my friends are pilots but mostly we work, not much time to visit at the airport.

We used to do a day or two a year that we gave free rides, had a bar-b-que and such but that was when there was some money around. Now most of us can't even stay proficient due to the cost involved.

[quote="] .......... Interesting that some non-flying friends who know what I'm working on and how I feel about aviation, make comments to me like "oh, those rich private pilots aren't going to have any problems with gas prices." It amazes me that mind-set that is out there about you all ... if you fly ... you're automatically rich! (I know ~ if only right??? ) ..................... [/quote]

It's all a matter of priorities. I know people who make comments about "you rich pilots", griping that they couldn't afford to fly even if they were interested in it. Well, when people talk like that, just take a look at what they do spend their money on: gigantic houses, motorhomes, get-away cabins, guided/outfitted hunting trips, vacations in Tuscany, full-dress harleys, hotrods or other vintage cars, boats or jetski's, snowmobiles, etc etc. Or just full-time partying at the local watering holes.
Ditto for the investment of time required to learn to fly and to stay proficient. A guy I know has always been interested in aviation, but when it's suggested that he just go for it-- "I don't have the time". Well, he has the time to go coyote hunting, motorcycle riding, etc. Like I said about money, it's all about priorities with time too.

Eric

hotrod150 wrote:It's all a matter of priorities.

Like I told my ex...

"I can always sleep in the airplane, but you can't fly a house."

Gump

iceman wrote:As to empty seats on Sunday if you make it down here any time just call and I'll get you a seat in any ones ride for the breakfast. Or mine if you want. As to the rich part. I'm a window coverings contractor. I'm a licensed and bonded sub contractor who installs draperies and window coverings for the interior stores and decorators in the SD area. I'm not rich but I do well. My first plane was a used Tripacer that I paid 10,500 for. That's less than just about any car on the road. I flew it for 9 years on a shoestring budget cause there were always other stuff that needed tending to . Compare that to some of the land yachts that tow a dozen toys to the desert or a 30,000 dollar boat to some lake and who'se the rich one....

You would have to live at the extreme other end of the state from me darn it! But I made it down to VNY once ... I'm gonna keep that kind offer in mind!

And I went "ouch" at your example about land yachts; hubby has his boat and the hot rods - and I of course have the hay sucking four-leggeds (mutual spousal "toleration" thing going on obviously )

But this discussion is only serving to make me feel a bit of an increasing sense of "regardless of circumstances/situation ... want it enough? Make it happen." Because in the end you are all absolutely right ~ it is about what is worth working for/sacrificing for/wanting enough in your life. As Eric said - it's a matter of priorities.

Granted, that's a "universal" theme in life ... but it's not an easy one to skirt around when it comes to the desire to fly; flying demands a lot both from the material standpoint of being able to afford it ~ as well as from the personal standpoint of reaching deep inside to find the traits it takes as a human being ... to do it at all.

GumpAir wrote:

hotrod150 wrote:It's all a matter of priorities.

Like I told my ex...

"I can always sleep in the airplane, but you can't fly a house."

Gump

Oh gawd ~ this is a great quote (love your avatar too Gump)

Flywriter wrote:
I'm wondering about your non-cyber communities; do you have them at your local airports; are they active; do you participate; do you reach out to the non-aviation community around your airport; do you ... care????

Around here there is an EAA pancake breakfast at some airport within 45 minutes flight every Saturday morning. My 3 year old asks every Friday night where we are going to get breakfast in the morning. We try not to miss it if weather permits.

I am an active member (Young Eagles Coordinator) in our local EAA chapter in which we have a Young Eagles event at least once a month...except in the summer when we fly them every Thursday evening that the weather permits. We are a very active group with a great group of guys and gals to hang out with. Lots of hanger BBQ "parties" and at least one or two good fly-in events are hosted on the field each year.

With regards to the community...we are hosting a WWII Memorial / Salute to Veterans this weekend that is free to the public. Our EAA chapter is footing the bill along with some great sponsors and organizing the event. We will have a full reenactment group on the field complete with battle reenactments. We also have a full compliment of warbirds that will be on hand for static display, fly-by, and paid rides. It is all free to the public as a way to educate the younger generation and honor our veterans both past and present.

I'd say we have a rather active non-cyber community that I participate in and we are very conscientious / willing to share with the "non-flying" community around us.

Living at an airpark, I'm surrounded by "community". It's comprised of the smaller cliques of special interests....ultralights, homebuilts, antiques, and a few of us dirt pounders with 180's. We all manage to meet up typically on a Friday or Saturday morning at a nearby airport cafe (a whopping 5 minute flight) and share all manner of wonderful tales. Maybe some are even true!

We have the old geezers....a 90+ year old CFI, an 86 year old ex-Air Corps guy (who flies more than I do), retired engineers, CPA's, electricians....quite a blend of experiences and histories. It's WONDERFUL. We also do the Young Eagle rallies, and have been really kicking ass with around 100 kids flown per event. Every now and then, you get a kid that GET'S IT. You know? There's a sparkle...a switch turned on in their soul and you know they're hooked. That makes my day, I tell ya. Will there be an affordable GA for them when they come of age??

I have noticed that the typical weekend morning departing airplane concert has calmed in the past few weeks. Larry's 180, Dave's 195, Art's 172...my alarm clocks...aren't as active. Many of us are evaluating our flying habits (the best addiction in the world, if ya gotta have one). The temptation to push my 180 out, and go fly every day, is hard to resist! But, the fuel bill sure get's ugly in a hurry. Lots of hangar flying is standard, most any evening. Beer is still affordable and STC approved for all pilots. Amongst my buddies and I, we have three beer fridges at the ready 24/7. Gotta love it.

I recall posting on an Avweb survey that I'd probably give up flying once avgas went to $5. HAH! Well, they called my bluff.

I'm not folding yet.

It's about flying at the core-- the getting into the plane and actually piloting it somewhere and surviving...but there is much more to flying that just that, in my opinion.

Community is a huge element to flying. The hangar flying, the wrenching, the arguing, the ingeniuity, friendships that evolve into solid friendships that aren't limited to a flying basis any more... The community and personal aspect of flying are so strong, and have such powerful influence, that I've been both extremely inspired to fly, and pushed to the point of wanting to give it up, simply by community influences.

There's no way I could ever match the number of friends I've made because of this site with a similar effort at my local airport. I know you're asking about actual local community, but these days I think even that starts with the internet. All the pilots I know in the Portland area...I met them here.

1SeventyZ wrote:It's about flying at the core-- the getting into the plane and actually piloting it somewhere and surviving...but there is much more to flying that just that, in my opinion.

Community is a huge element to flying. The hangar flying, the wrenching, the arguing, the ingeniuity, friendships that evolve into solid friendships that aren't limited to a flying basis any more... The community and personal aspect of flying are so strong, and have such powerful influence, that I've been both extremely inspired to fly, and pushed to the point of wanting to give it up, simply by community influences.

There's no way I could ever match the number of friends I've made because of this site with a similar effort at my local airport. I know you're asking about actual local community, but these days I think even that starts with the internet. All the pilots I know in the Portland area...I met them here.

Well said ... couldn't agree more; you touch on themes that prove themselves true time and time again the more aviators I talk with.

And yes – the internet. Today you cannot discount its importance in shaping "community"; it has become - some would argue for better or for worse I suppose - a part of our lives. It's a positive thing though in my opinion. The site you have formed here is a classic example of it at its best; through e-mail and the incredible access the internet gives me ~ I have corresponded with and met amazing pilots and people who have helped shaped my book, that I would otherwise never had a chance to.

As you just stated, "all the pilots I know in the Portland area...I met them here." Your now annual gathering at JC; the information shared here; the friendship obviously shared here. Connections made, support given in very human ways that couldn't be without this technology....

IMO, it is rightly a tool and an effective way to strengthen the "GA community" at a time it needs that if it is going to survive.

But it should probably go hand in hand with the age-old tradition of just "showing up" as people still can ~ I don't think tapping on this computer will ever take the place of ... say .... sitting around with the "old timers" in person ... while they hangar fly; how the heck can you pass the coffee and donuts (or OK ~ that cold brewski) through this screen; or see that look come over someone telling you a story about that ... amazing flight?

Yet that said? Isn't this just the perfect place ~ to arrange to do just that.....

You know, Flywriter, You could probably sit down at a dozen hangar flying sit ins with us old pilots and not learn anything new and just hear about politics and the cost of fuel and such. But once in a while the conversation turns golden and you hear stuff that really settles in and makes an impression. THen you hear the tales of great flying and good fellowship and stories of one guy putting it all on the line to help anothe pilot. Doesn't happen too often but then once in a while you share oxygen with someone who makes your day and you remember those times and it all seems to come together. Too often there's way too much animosity at the airport. THis guy hates that guy, this one doesn't approve of that one and so on. But for the most part if you put the Bull crap asside most of the pilots I know are really good guys and will go out of their way to help in any situation.. Ah I guess I just had one too many glasses of wine tonight.Disregard the previous>>>>>>