Background:

I am about a 60 hour, non current pilot who hasn't flown in about 13 years. I have a pipeline coming through my place that has produced funds and this Summer will take out a clump of trees that will free up a place for about an 1,100 feet grass strip in the direction of the prevailing wind.

I solo'd in an Aeronca Champ and then did most of my flying in a 150. I flew once in a Hershey Bar Cherokee 140 and liked it, although it felt quite different than the other planes I had flown.

Question:

I would like to get something for under $20K that I can use for recreational flying and on a nice day, take my wife to visit her twin sister about 200 miles away. I don't need a fancy panel, just the basics. I don't need a real fresh engine because I won't be piling on hours at a rapid pace.

I will need a plane for the relatively short grass strip I described for daylight take off and landing. My idea is a 150 or a Cheorkee 140. I would love an old tail dragger like a Champ or a Cub, but they seem quite pricey and probably not well suited for a 200 mile flight with my wife.

I plan on using the plane for the instruction flying that I will need to get current again and will have an instructor work with me to get comfortable with my grass strip.

Any comments, advice and/or plane recommendations are appreciated.

Doc

Thanks very much Mongo. I had never thought about a 140, and I haven't done any research, but I think the one you showed has extra power as compared to the original engines used. In my quick googling, it appears that this would be a good solution for my runway length. It is also a classic tail dragger that won't break the bank.

That particular one looks to be a beautiful plane. It has more panel than I need and is over my budget, but it is very tempting.

Thanks for the link. Everyone please keep the comments and suggestions coming. This is a great site.

Doc

MBDiagMan wrote:Background:

I am about a 60 hour, non current pilot who hasn't flown in about 13 years. I have a pipeline coming through my place that has produced funds and this Summer will take out a clump of trees that will free up a place for about an 1,100 feet grass strip in the direction of the prevailing wind.

I solo'd in an Aeronca Champ and then did most of my flying in a 150. I flew once in a Hershey Bar Cherokee 140 and liked it, although it felt quite different than the other planes I had flown.

Question:

I would like to get something for under $20K that I can use for recreational flying and on a nice day, take my wife to visit her twin sister about 200 miles away. I don't need a fancy panel, just the basics. I don't need a real fresh engine because I won't be piling on hours at a rapid pace.

I will need a plane for the relatively short grass strip I described for daylight take off and landing. My idea is a 150 or a Cheorkee 140. I would love an old tail dragger like a Champ or a Cub, but they seem quite pricey and probably not well suited for a 200 mile flight with my wife.

I plan on using the plane for the instruction flying that I will need to get current again and will have an instructor work with me to get comfortable with my grass strip.

Any comments, advice and/or plane recommendations are appreciated.

Doc

Citarba 7 series about 150-160 hp. Or champ with 85+ hp. We have a Citarba Project for sale minus engine -prop and mount. Everything else is there .

Maybe a little more info on your proposed "strip" would help people give you a better idea of what type of plane can safely get in and out. I have a 1,000 foot strip at my place and it has the proverbial 50' trees at each end. It is marginal for most anything other than STOL type planes such as Champs, Cub, Super Cub, Citabria, Scout, etc. I fly a Champ in and out but it can get hairy if I have a passenger and the winds are not right. Actually I rarely fly with a pssenger due to safety concerns. I have started extending it in hopes of also flying my 172 into and out of it.
With the low hours you have I doubt I would even think about flying a Cherokee 140 or a Cessna 150 into 1,100' unless there are no obstacles at the ends.
WW

Thanks for the replies!

As suggested, I will give further description of the proposed strip:

I have revisited the layout as it will be after the pipeline clears out some trees. The prevailing winds here are typically out of the South, SouthWest.

The 1,100 feet I originally considered would be something like 21/3. It would have a short fence on the North and some pretty tall trees on the South. I could extend it by about 200 feet on the North end, but that extension would lead up to power lines and trees probably about 40 feet high.

I could arrange a different strip that would be about the same distance, maybe even a little longer. It would have a short fence on either end and would be something like 15/33. If need be, I could rearrange some cross fencing and ad about 400 feet on the North, but it would then lead up to the same power line, but no trees. That extra 400 or more feet would also be downhill from the main strip which would be relatively level. Also this one would be on a pipeline cut which means that it will be several years before I can grow grass on it. It would be effectively longer without obstacles, but would more often have a cross wind component. When I was flying, I had quite a natural talent for cross wind landing. It was one of my strengths, for what it's worth.

Thanks for your ongoing suggestions and comments.

Doc

If a 150 will work for you, I know where you can get one cheap

Thanks Jaerl!

I would love to have a 150 if it will work on my proposed grass strip. From what I'm finding out, it sounds as if the only way a 150 would work is if it had a 150HP engine. I welcome comments and feedback regarding a 150HP Cessna 150 handling my strip.

Doc

MBDiagMan wrote:Thanks Jaerl!

I would love to have a 150 if it will work on my proposed grass strip. From what I'm finding out, it sounds as if the only way a 150 would work is if it had a 150HP engine. I welcome comments and feedback regarding a 150HP Cessna 150 handling my strip.

Doc

My wife had a 150/150 with a STOL kit and a Javalin aux fuel tank. It was a nice flying airplane and would work well on the size of strip that you will have. However, with that big engine and the extra fuel, you were almost at gross weight even without passengers. Now, I don't know the condition of your airstrip, but if you wanted to put bigger wheels on as well, well the weight issue would becomes even more of a factor. The airplane could certainly perform with the extra weight, but you needed to be careful in order to remain within the proper W&B.

Note the big spinner in comparison to the stock 150.

I think Christine over on Maulepilots.org still has her C-140 for sale.

TD

MBDiagMan wrote:I would like to get something for under $20K that I can use for recreational flying and on a nice day, take my wife to visit her twin sister about 200 miles away. I don't need a fancy panel, just the basics.

I will need a plane for the relatively short grass strip I described for daylight take off and landing.

I would love an old tail dragger like a Champ or a Cub, but they seem quite pricey and probably not well suited for a 200 mile flight with my wife.

I plan on using the plane for the instruction flying that I will need to get current again and will have an instructor work with me to get comfortable with my grass strip.

You just wrote the brochure for an Aeronca Chief or a Commonwealth Skyranger. Your instructor will prefer the Chief's easy flying manners and non-propensity to groundloop.

Your wife will like the side by side seating where she can share the flight with you, talk, hold hands, and feel more like a co-pilot than a passenger.

The Chief is cheap to the extreme... $15 or 18K will get you a safe one with some life left in it.

1000 feet of grass is enough room for a Chief under most conditions... you will likely want a climb prop unless you and your wife are on the small side. The T-craft would have been a good choice except is is tighter and less comfortable for average or bigger size people than the Chief.

A $500 handheld GPS will get you to your destination in a Chief just as accurately as a $50K glass panel or a $50M airliner.

Most importantly of all, an old taildragger will take you places and let you learn things that no other airplane can do.

If you are small people, consider the T-craft because it goes a little faster but still does everything else. If you are larger, the Chief fits the bill best IMHO for under $20K.

MBDiagMan wrote:Thanks for the replies!

As suggested, I will give further description of the proposed strip:

I have revisited the layout as it will be after the pipeline clears out some trees. The prevailing winds here are typically out of the South, SouthWest.

The 1,100 feet I originally considered would be something like 21/3. It would have a short fence on the North and some pretty tall trees on the South. I could extend it by about 200 feet on the North end, but that extension would lead up to power lines and trees probably about 40 feet high.

I could arrange a different strip that would be about the same distance, maybe even a little longer. It would have a short fence on either end and would be something like 15/33. If need be, I could rearrange some cross fencing and ad about 400 feet on the North, but it would then lead up to the same power line, but no trees. That extra 400 or more feet would also be downhill from the main strip which would be relatively level. Also this one would be on a pipeline cut which means that it will be several years before I can grow grass on it. It would be effectively longer without obstacles, but would more often have a cross wind component. When I was flying, I had quite a natural talent for cross wind landing. It was one of my strengths, for what it's worth.

Thanks for your ongoing suggestions and comments.

Doc

Why not have both runways if you have the room? Its always good to have options when the wind picks up.

Having had a stock 150 for a while, I'd be pretty leary about operating it out of a 1100' strip, particularly one with trees.

My specs were
Empty weight: 1120lbs
Full fuel: 135lbs
Me: 130lbs
========
1385lbs

I was operating out of a 2000' paved strip, though sometimes on grass. Typically it would take around a 1000 feet OR SO to get off the ground. There were 30 foot or so trees to the side and beyond the end of the runway another 20 feet or so. Usually I would clear those with the wing tips unless it was really warm. Adding a passenger decreased performance considerably.

My 172 gets off the ground 200-400' shorter with just myself, and climbs a lot faster but I'd still be a bit puckery with trees, I think. Of course, I'm a weenie.

You might consider something like a Zenith 701, though finding one in that price range would be a challenge. Maybe a tripacer? Even decent 172's can be found for not too much more. EZ's suggestion for a Chief sounds pretty hard to beat.

GroundLooper wrote:I was operating out of a 2000' paved strip, though sometimes on grass. Typically it would take around a 1000 feet OR SO to get off the ground. There were 30 foot or so trees to the side and beyond the end of the runway another 20 feet or so. Usually I would clear those with the wing tips unless it was really warm. Adding a passenger decreased performance considerably.

Sounds like Evergreen

robw56 wrote:

GroundLooper wrote:I was operating out of a 2000' paved strip, though sometimes on grass. Typically it would take around a 1000 feet OR SO to get off the ground. There were 30 foot or so trees to the side and beyond the end of the runway another 20 feet or so. Usually I would clear those with the wing tips unless it was really warm. Adding a passenger decreased performance considerably.

Sounds like Evergreen

I wish. No it was Green Mountain, a private strip just north of 1W1 (Camas). Sadly, Evergreen was closing shop about the time I was getting into flying.

Oh ok I know exactly where that is, my Dad lives a few miles from there at Fly For Fun Airport (W56).

I second the Champ or Chief recomendation. Both are the easiest ground handling taildraggers there are. Put an 85 HP engine in either one of those aircraft an they perform extremely well. I like the visibility and leg room of the Champ better, personally. I was comfortable in the Chief but I'm a short guy. If you have long legs you might feel a little cramp in the Chief. But an Aeronca Chief is about the most affordable way to get in the air period.

MBD, If the gas line company is going through you and knocking down trees, there shouldn't be anything to clear on either end?? They usually use D8's and larger. Those things can make any place flat in a hurry.

Rob,

My forehead is now flat after hitting it with the heel of my hand while saying "why didn't I think of that?" I guess I get the dunce award for the day. I will be plowing and planting the strip myself, so the added cost and time for both would be not much more than doing just one. The problem will be getting grass to grow on the pipeline. It will take several years after the line goes in before it will grow grass.

Patrol Guy,

I've already had pipelines go in, but this one will clear some trees that have been in the way up 'til now. When they put in the pipelines, they bring the clay to the top even though they're not supposed to. They also do a lousy job of smoothing it out afterward. The trees they're taking out are beautiful, one of them a 200 year old Burr Oak, but there's a little bit of good in everything. The good being the trees out of the way
.
Thanks to all for the replies.

Doc

EZFlap wrote:

MBDiagMan wrote:I would like to get something for under $20K that I can use for recreational flying and on a nice day, take my wife to visit her twin sister about 200 miles away. I don't need a fancy panel, just the basics.

I will need a plane for the relatively short grass strip I described for daylight take off and landing.

I would love an old tail dragger like a Champ or a Cub, but they seem quite pricey and probably not well suited for a 200 mile flight with my wife.

I plan on using the plane for the instruction flying that I will need to get current again and will have an instructor work with me to get comfortable with my grass strip.

You just wrote the brochure for an Aeronca Chief or a Commonwealth Skyranger. Your instructor will prefer the Chief's easy flying manners and non-propensity to groundloop.

Your wife will like the side by side seating where she can share the flight with you, talk, hold hands, and feel more like a co-pilot than a passenger.

The Chief is cheap to the extreme... $15 or 18K will get you a safe one with some life left in it.

1000 feet of grass is enough room for a Chief under most conditions... you will likely want a climb prop unless you and your wife are on the small side. The T-craft would have been a good choice except is is tighter and less comfortable for average or bigger size people than the Chief.

A $500 handheld GPS will get you to your destination in a Chief just as accurately as a $50K glass panel or a $50M airliner.

Most importantly of all, an old taildragger will take you places and let you learn things that no other airplane can do.

If you are small people, consider the T-craft because it goes a little faster but still does everything else. If you are larger, the Chief fits the bill best IMHO for under $20K.

Would a 65HP Chief suffice for my short field or would it need to be an 85HP?