I've been reading what I can find about these two products. What I can glean is as follows:

SPOT-uses comm satellite, signal goes to satellite, if you "911" then it goes to a commercial center that notifies GEOS to start SAR. The upside is that you can send multiple signals, have a web/email/MMS signal sent that "I'm ok" with your last known position, and so there is a "bread crumb" trail of where you were, and gives an idea of where you might be. I see the plusses as you can do this indefinitely, as the batteries are replaceable, and would have some use in backpacking, kayaking, etc just to let someone know where you were, and that you were okay. Cost is about $150, with a $100-$150 per year ongoing subscription. Downside is for true emergencies, you are on a different satellite system, and someone in a commercial center has to call GEOS to start SAR. Counterpoint to that is that if momma knows where you were, and you haven't checked in, for a while, you have someone else that may be bugging folks to start looking for you.


PLB-different brands, but the best seem to work on the 406 mHz frequency, and can get localization in a relatively short (5mins or so) time, if the satellite can get a fix on you. Limited (as is SPOT) if you are in a narrow slot of sky visibility. Upside is there is no subscription, but they are pricier to start with ($280 and up). Another upside is that once activated, their signal strength is much stronger (5watts vs a few mw), however, the signal fades in a few days. Most do not have an "i'm ok" feature, and the ones that do run the battery down fairly quickly. That then requires some bucks to be changed (they're not AAA from Wally World)


Seems to me, that the best is both...SPOT if you want to be tracked (and if you don't, just turn the sucker off), and PLB for a stronger signal. If you carried extra batteries, SPOT works for a week initially, and if you're surviving, but just need to be found, you can replace the batteries and keep asking for help. SPOT also has a "I'm ok, but need help" feature, which could be nice if you wanted to get someone to come to you, but didn't want to activate the SAR system.



Thoughts from anyone? I'm headed out across the hills Monday, need to go buy something....besides orange surveyor tape...

I agree that both is close to ideal, unless you want to add an Iridium satellite phone, so that you can call in your actual situation in an emergency, or order out pizza from the high arctic.....

FYI, read this article from Alaska: http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/a ... ing-rescue

There are a number of important lessons there, but one of the most important lessons have to do with who has primary responsibility for Search and Rescue in your particular area. In Alaska, that is the Alaska State Troopers, though many Alaskans BELIEVE that it's the military, specifically the Air National Guard.

You've got a couple minor errors in your statements:

1) The SPOT folks actually notify whomever has primary responsibility for SAR in your locale, I believe, NOT necessarily the military, via the Rescue Coordination Center. GEOS is a satellite system, used in the SAR program, but the ELT/PLB signals go to Mission Control Center, where they are decoded, processed, and passed along to Rescue Coordination Center. RCC for the lower 48 is at Tyndall AFB in Florida, for Alaska (not marine based) RCC is at Elmendorf AFB in Anchorage. Marine signals are tasked through USCG RCC's, rather than the terrestrial centers. RCC then decides the SAR resources appropriate, after conducting a telephonic "search" to verify the validity of the emergency, and dispatches the appropriate SAR resource, again depending on who has primary responsibility for SAR. SPOT, on the other hand, is a private service, and they will contact whomever they believe or understand to have SAR responsibility for the area from which your signal originated. That is not going to be Tyndall or Elmendorf, most likely. In fact, in the lower 48, it'll likely be a local sheriff's office, state patrol or DOT. I realize that's a subtle distinction, but depending on where you are located, it could be a big deal.

2. I've been using a SPOT tracker in tracking mode in my airplane since they first came out. In almost every track, I find that there are gaps in coverage, for reasons I don't understand. Sometimes these gaps are fairly short, sometimes, as in the case of my return home from OSH recently, there is a gap of fifty miles or so. That is a pretty big gap, frankly. These gaps GENERALLY occur while I'm flying northbound, so I suspect that it has to do with the satellite not being in view of my SPOT, which I have velcroed to the instrument panel. Generally, though, coverage is good. The "I'm okay" feature is VERY nice, though I very specifically have told my wife not to worry if I don't send an "I'm okay" message. Those too have been known to misfire, in my experience, though this is rare.

3) Your comment regarding the satellites not being in view due to terrain does in fact apply to the SPOT device, but does not apply to the PLB or ELT. The SAR/SAT system consists of two separate sets of satellites, one geosynchronous, which can easily be blocked by terrain near your location to the south, and a constellation of polar orbiting satellites. Sooner or later, one of those orbiting satellites SHOULD pass over in an orbit such that your PLB signal gets out. The system will accept signals from either satellite system, though the polar orbiting satellite system is the only one that can provide location via doppler effect and triangulation. Most PLBs contain an onboard GPS, so when activated they automatically transmit user ID and lat/long coordinates, so EITHER type satellite will immediately notify RCC who you are and your location almost immediately, like in a matter of minutes.

Unfortunately, the wide availability of PLBs is rapidly turning the SAR system back into what it was in the "121.5 days", where there were many false alarms. Note such references by RCC in the Alaska Dispatch article. SPOT may or may not generate the same sort of issues, but again, the 911 signal doesn't go to RCC in that case.

I believe that both a PLB and a SPOT is a good combination. When I flew a lot in Alaska, I carried an Iridium satellite phone, and that saved me MANY aggravations, uncessary delays, etc, though I never really needed it in an emergency. The field crews that I supported, however, used their Iridium phones on several occasions to call me for assistance. Wilderness camping and working 100 miles or so from the nearest road can be pretty dangerous, and having a solid backup means to communicate can be the difference between life and death.

MTV

MTV, thanks for the clarification on those points.


I'm about to do a fairly long cross country in a slow plane over a lot of terrain that's rougher than where I usually fly. (from Hayward CA back to MS). I'm thinking it might be good insurance to get a spot and a PLB.



MTV, did you get my PM about the Husky?

With a SPOT Connect, you can send details about your situation to enhance your rescue or those providing assistance to your situation. That was a big selling point for me that I didn't find in the available PLBs.

I was fairly cynical about SPOT and their emergency reporting. I am no longer cynical - they do a good job of contacting who needs to be contacted, both up here and in the lower 48. I imagine that the liability cloud forces good performance in this area.

I am still cynical about their reception and coverage. Add me to the column of persons who use a Spot all the time BUT carry a ACR PLB in their emergency vest. I've yet to have one flight - even one - without missing waypoints on the tracking feature, flying both in Alaska and in the desert southwest. If it can miss a tracking waypoint due to poor reception then it can miss a 911 activation.

Anyone have a recommendation on a PLB? Which is the best for the bucks?


I'm thinking "both" is the right answer right now as far as "SPOT vs PLB" goes

once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote: I've yet to have one flight - even one - without missing waypoints on the tracking feature, flying both in Alaska and in the desert southwest. If it can miss a tracking waypoint due to poor reception then it can miss a 911 activation.

Sounds like you have the first gen SPOT. You miss points because it only sends them once. The newer SPOT's send the current point as well as the last three. In emergency mode it sends a continuous(or nearly so, every few minutes) message. So don't take the fact that the SPOT misses a point in tracking mode as meaning anything in the 911 mode. It's apples and oranges.

I've got both....... having the SPOT on during flights all over and especially in the back country really helps my wife be less concerned (if shes not with me). To her its even interesting to see where I've been. Neighbors have tracked me all over the place, up to Alaska etc, to the point where they have said they are riveted to the computer screen its so interesting to watch. Turn it off if you are going someplace you dont want to be tracked.

There have been a number of accidents where I believe that the search would have been days or weeks shorter if a SPOT tracker was turned on, even if it missed a point or two. Even if destroyed, having recent track and data out there is helpful. I have the PLB as backup.

Its a good tool at a very low price IMHO.

Tim

mtv has the secret - although it's the most expensive alternative. I carry a 1st gen SPOT and a sat-phone. SPOT is sporadic sometimes, but it's better than nothing. The sat-phone is precieless - nothing beats being able to call folks and talk to them, regardless of where you're at. Although it's expensive (did I mention that already?), it's a cheap insurance policy. Once past the initial acquisition cost, it's about $200 per year for minutes - which do expire.

And atleast in the lower part of BC canada, no one is listening for the 121.5 signal anymore. There was a beacon going off all weekend at our airport. I showed up monday morning, my dad says to me that there is a 121.5 signal going off, some people on the airport had heard it on their 'base stations'. I asked my dad if anyone had contacted the JRCC people, and he said he wasn't sure. I phoned them up, and nobody had reported it, over the entire weekend. It seemed everybody assumed that someone else had reported it. So in Canada until they get this 406/121 elt dilemna sorted out, you better remember to flightplan with someone, because it seems noone is watching for you on the 121 signal anymore. Just amazed me considering the amount of air traffic around here.

Anyone have a recommendation on a PLB? Which is the best for the bucks?

You might want to have a look here:

http://www.equipped.org/McMurdoNewFastFind.htm

http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=284

I have one of the old honking big ACR PLB's and thinking very seriously of trading up (down?) to one of the smaller models. If you don't have it on you in a pocket or in a vest you may not have it when you need it, especially if you end up taking a swim.

TD

Bonanza Man wrote:

once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote: I've yet to have one flight - even one - without missing waypoints on the tracking feature, flying both in Alaska and in the desert southwest. If it can miss a tracking waypoint due to poor reception then it can miss a 911 activation.

Sounds like you have the first gen SPOT.

Nope, I have the 2gen SPOT Messenger. What I also have is a high wing aircraft.

You miss points because it only sends them once. The newer SPOT's send the current point as well as the last three. In emergency mode it sends a continuous(or nearly so, every few minutes) message. So don't take the fact that the SPOT misses a point in tracking mode as meaning anything in the 911 mode. It's apples and oranges.

Thanks, that's interesting info. Though if you don't have Globalstar coverage (talk about a contradiction in terms) or GPS aquisition it can attempt transmissions all day and it won't amount to a hill of beans. I also attempt OK and custom message transmissions and often those don't send at all, or sometimes if they do, it is much later than when the button was pushed.

Look, considering the aquisition and ongoing cost SPOT is a great tool, I'm just not going to put all my hopes into it because I knew its limitations when I bought it and continue to see real evidence of its limitations myself. If I wanted actual tracking and message reliability I would buy something with a bit more there, there, like one of the Iridium-based tracking solutions. But if I were to spend that kind of money I'd do like others and get a sat phone instead.

When the plane goes down I might take the time to pop the cap off and press the 911 button. But that's secondary to activating my PLB. I mostly bought it for the cheap tracking.

I was looking at the Spidertracks system for installing in our 'homebuilt stinson'. I haven't heard many reviews on it, but it is iridium based, which i like, and it is also 'aviation minded' unlike the spot which in my eyes was built mainly for the 'recreational person'. I also like the fact that they print their pricing online. But then again they are a lot more expensive then the SPOT for the unit, and probably more expensive for the 'tracking' also. I also like the fact that you can increase the # of signals/hr that it sends out. But then i'm not in a hurry to buy it, because that airplane isn't going to be completed till next year at the earliest.

I've been thinking about picking up a PLB to complement my Spot - stopped by the ACR booth at Osh Kosh to look at their products and discovered they had just released the ResQLink 406 GPS - 4.6oz,3.9", ~$275, looks promising...




http://www.acrelectronics.com/products/ ... nk-406-gps

The wrong question is posed in this thread.

It's not a matter of "SPOT vs. PLB" ... they serve different purposes, and do different things in different ways. If you are traveling way off grid where even if you land the airplane perfectly and walk away with nothing but your pride damaged, but survival for more than a few hours is in doubt due to weather (extreme heat or cold), wild animules, bad guys in the neighborhood, your landing site is underwater and a long ways from dry land, or your landing site on dry land but hundreds of miles from help, whatever ... then carry a PLB by all means.

If you want a means of dealing with a wide variety of situations ... from having your loved ones track your flight progress, to calling for a can of gas or a couple of spark plugs from your friendly mechanic, and then having the ability to also call in an emergency is a very nice - but not essential - feature to have in addition to all the other capabilities, then the SPOT is for you.

If you want both of the above, then buy both a SPOT and a PLB.

This "SPOT vs. PLB" argument gets rehashed all the time. It's like, "well, if I have to choose between my Toyota FourRunner and my Fender Telecaster ... which one do I choose?????"

Substitute "my wife vs. my children", or "my fishing poles vs. my guns", or "my Jack Daniels vs. my Sam Adams", or whatever other pair of stuff that comes in handy in your life that you'd rather not have to do without. Same diff!

NMflyguy, I think you're right.


Headed across your territory in a few days...

Of course, it's more along the line of "do I take my Husky, or do I take my Baron..." leave the kids out of this....

mmartin1872 wrote:And atleast in the lower part of BC canada, no one is listening for the 121.5 signal anymore. There was a beacon going off all weekend at our airport. I showed up monday morning, my dad says to me that there is a 121.5 signal going off, some people on the airport had heard it on their 'base stations'. I asked my dad if anyone had contacted the JRCC people, and he said he wasn't sure. I phoned them up, and nobody had reported it, over the entire weekend. It seemed everybody assumed that someone else had reported it. So in Canada until they get this 406/121 elt dilemna sorted out, you better remember to flightplan with someone, because it seems noone is watching for you on the 121 signal anymore. Just amazed me considering the amount of air traffic around here.

On the other hand, at Oshkosh this year, a Cub crashed, and the 121.5 elt activated. Someone reported it, and a response was generated. Unfortunately, the people were killed in the accident.

You're right that 121.5 isn't as reliable as it used to be, but airliners are "supposed" to monitor it, and many do.

MTV

Southern Boy wrote:NMflyguy, I think you're right.


Headed across your territory in a few days...

OK Southern, be safe, and watch for those afternoon T-storms in the southern Rockies and southwestern Great Plains .... a lot of people don't realize this area is second only to Florida for concentration and intensity of thunderstorms during the late summer. XM Weather comes in real handy for cross-country flights in this country this time of year. I fly across the state every week, just about, and the datalink weather is super helpful.

I carry the Kanad XS-4 PLB. small, waterproof. I put it in a small neoprene bag so it will float as well. The new ACR mentioned is a good candidate too.
You register the beacon with SARSAT COSPAS after purchase. It will indicate the N number.
For my money... that gets the most response to a signal in the systems out there.
Downed aircraft are attention getters, as we all know. Missing hikers seem to take second place...
I also have an Artex 406 ELT on board. I teach pilots to flip the panel switch in any really shaky situation. Don't count on G switches. That is, presuming you know something bad is about to happen. If it turns out OK... just turn it off... and offer apologies. Hey, it's your tax money paying for their time and hardware. Don't forget that. Aircraft searches are not some "favor" done by a bunch of retirees.
SPOT has a place in the scheme too. I just like the full blown search coming my way....
Cheers,