CamTom12 wrote:That's a good point, Battson.

We as humans are amazing compensators. Even in a terribly flying aircraft, after enough time you won't even realize what poor handling qualities you're masking with different flying techniques.

We adapt. An example was when I went from working a Cessna 185 to a Cessna 206. At first, the 206 was pretty uncomfortable to me, because the control inputs required were heavy compared to the 185.

But, after a couple hundred hours of flying the 206, I realized that the airplane is also a lot more stable in turbulence......not a bad trade off in a working airplane, actually. But, not something I'd have tumbled to initially. Initial impression vs. operational experience can be VERY different.

I agree that how hard an airplane is to board/exit is pretty important. I'd never consider a Taylorcraft for that reason, I'm not flexible enough these days (maybe never) to comfortably get in and out of them. That said, after some practice, it'd probably be a lot easier than it is initially.

But, you don't have to fly an airplane to figure out if your knees are going to hit the panel, or you don't fold up well enough to get in.

I do agree, however, that some flight characteristics may be a bit of a surprise to you on many aircraft. But, unless those are really ugly, most of us will adapt pretty quickly.

MTV

CamTom12 wrote:We as humans are amazing compensators. Even in a terribly flying aircraft, after enough time you won't even realize what poor handling qualities you're masking with different flying techniques.

Quite right - here's a little example:
The phase 1 test pilot for our Bearhawk got so used to flying with just a little left aileron and rudder to maintain straight and level while we worked down our list of more important things to adjust, it became the normal and he totally forgot to mention it / add it to the bottom of the list. I only thought to ask him about it after my first flight, when all the other squawks were already worked out and I happened to notice the very slight out of balance.

I guess after you teach yourself to get used to something, it goes off the radar - I guess it's the same underlying cognitive process which allows people to ignore the gear horn and land wheels up. But that's a different discussion.

I have bought airplanes because they were a good deal only to find out I didn't like flying them or that they had other qualities that I didn't want to deal with. One was a Taylorcraft 15a, hard to get in and out of and the brakes were useless. Another was a 206, it flew like a truck, I didn't enjoy flying it. But I bought them at the right price and was able to get my money back when I sold them.

One caution I give to anyone buying an airplane is to use common sense and don't get emotional about an airplane when buying one. Don't pay so much that you can't get out of it with out losing your butt. Don't be afraid to walk away from a plane for any reason.

Recently My brother and I were shopping for a Champ. We made a couple of 2 hour flights in my 180 to look at what was represented as a good airplane only to be disappointed by their condition. We found one in our area that was exactly what we wanted. If we would have brought one of those less than perfect Champs home, we wouldn't have found this beauty that we now have.

I almost made an emotional deal on a 185. It was an airplane my dad bought with a group of friends new in 1966. The current owner wanted to trade me for my 206. My 206 was very low time with a new prop and new paint. the 185 was approaching 10k tt and engine and prop were at tbo, paint and interior were trash. I would have had to dump 75 k into it to bring it up to the level of the 206. I decided to not go through with the deal and it was the best decision I ever made besides marring my wife. If I would have traded for the 185 I wouldn't have had the money to by my airport.

Chose what ever plane you want, if you buy it right and it doesn't fit your needs you can always sell it and get something else.

I still can't decide! I got some insurance quotes and an M4 is approaching $4000.

Still in the mix, but maybe a 170 or Pacer might be an option and put the extra $2000/yr in the fuel tank.

Back to square one I suppose.

TxAgfisher wrote:I still can't decide! I got some insurance quotes and an M4 is approaching $4000.

Still in the mix, but maybe a 170 or Pacer might be an option and put the extra $2000/yr in the fuel tank.

Back to square one I suppose.

Well, I'll say it again: For the first 200~300 hours, a powerful airplane is just wasting your money and making you a worse pilot. Lose-Lose. A powerful airplane in no way, shape, or form makes someone a good pilot. For an extreme example of that, reference Air France flight 447. And why anyone would abuse a cross-country aircraft with the endless pattern work required of a new pilot is just beyond me.

A gutless two-seater will teach you about flying the wing rather than the engine, and that really comes in handy when your engine comes up short on performance. Since the only engines that won't eventually come up short on performance in the mountains burn kerosene, you might was well learn low-performance flying before you get there.

We are a species that gravitates to the easiest and most expedient solution to any given problem. Give someone enough excess thrust and their bag of tricks is going to be limited to pushing forward with the right hand and pulling back with the left (reverse hands in a tandem). Lots of pilots crash in the mountains when that doesn't work, and it didn't have to end like that.

As a newly minted pilot you're so far from taking a load in and out of an 800-foot mountain strip that trying to match an aircraft to that task is comically nonsensical. No reason you can't do that eventually, but using that criteria for your first airplane purchase makes about as much sense as giving a seven-year-old boy a 300 Win. Mag for his first rifle...it does more harm than good.

All just my opinion of course. Even I don't put a whole lot of stock in my opinions...

I tend to agree with Hammer. If I remember right Hammer camped with his wife out of a C-140. I camped with my wife out of a Luscombe. Flying a low powered airplane really taught me how to fly, not that I actually know that much, and to pay attention. It was also really cheap. I'm a low time pilot with only 400hrs but almost all those hours were in the Luscombe. When I started flying the Bearhawk I was amazed with the performance. It was like I could go anywhere and it only had 180hp.

Guess my point is...pretty much what Hammer said.

Without seeing your runway one couldn't really say what plane could be flown out of it. With clear approaches, 1000' of runway at 350'msl almost anything could be flown out of there. If I were you I'd be shopping for a two place airplane like a C140 or a Luscombe. After a couple hundred hours you'll know more about what you want, will have had some great adventures and will really know how to handle an airplane without relying on horsepower to make up for poor piloting.

It's rare to get "the" plane right off the bat. That's not a bad thing, necessarily. Experience, timing, budget, and simply not being sure what kind of flying you prefer are all reasons. I always knew I wanted a 185, but it took me a pacer, an older 180 and a lot of ag wagon time to get there. 10 years from now I may want only a Pitts model 12....who knows.

No endorsement, but something like this could be great.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/air ... 46447.html

Good luck on your search

I don't want to break the rules, but there's a nice pacer that was built light on the Shortwing site as well.

Tom, which one are you referring to? I have scoured TAP, Barnstormers, SWP and this site has a nice one but for $40+ I would expect a 360 conversion.

CamTom12 wrote:I don't want to break the rules, but there's a nice pacer that was built light on the Shortwing site as well.

It's not breaking the rules if you post a known aircraft for sale in response to someone searching. Starting new threads with aircraft for sale not owned by you is what is not allowed.

Good deal, thanks for the clarification!