Just a year ago, I acquired my first plane, a Cherokee 180. I bought it from a friend of mine, knowing full well that it had sat for 4-5 years without flying. I was fully aware what this might do to a lycoming, and when I originally bought it, I thought about rolling an overhaul into the purchase price, but decided to see what the engine would do. I flew it for a year without it ever missing a beat, but at annual this year, there was a lot of ferrous metal in the filter. No surprise.

I began to think about the overhaul again, and I have gotten some estimates, when a completely crazy idea took hold of me: sell the Cherokee (very nice plane by the way) as a run out and buy a 150HP Supercub or and older Cessna 180.

Crazy because I am still a low hour pilot with no tailwheel time.... but I love those airplanes, ( which is why I am here so much I suppose), my wife really doesn't want to fly, I have no where I need to go in the plane, it is strictly for fun, and if the first part seems crazy, it only gets worse, I dream of a plane I can put on floats some day.


OK, now set me straight!

Jump into the deep end of the pool and join the rest of us crazies!

Sounds completely sane and logical to me.

If you're spending airplane money, it might as well be on the airplane you love and drool over.

Totally stupid - and exactly what I would do. Except for that 180 part - way too many people looking for those things. Get in line. Lots of PA-18s to be had.

I'm with Zane -- this airplane ownership thing is nuts to begin with, so buy the plane that you're crazy about. Don't break the spell by injecting too much reason in your decision.

Another way to look at it - if you put a new engine in that cherokee - will the value go up by that amount? Probably not - that's surely what the next owner wants though cause it will be a good deal for them if you know you want to sell.

Best to cut losses -and buy your last plane now. Get a deal give a deal.

You ARE crazy........for not doing it sooner.

Don't worry if once you start your tailwheel training that you find out you suck as a pilot. Most of us learned that as well.

Barnstormer wrote:You ARE crazy........for not doing it sooner.

Don't worry if once you start your tailwheel training that you find out you suck as a pilot. Most of us learned that as well.

That's why I drive a trike. I can get a TW down safely, but I really don't like saying after every landing, "Geez, Cary, you suck as a pilot."

Seriously, you should fly what you want to fly. I'm really happy with my little airplane, but a lot of folks wouldn't be--too slow, not hardcore enough, not good for "real" IFR or "real" backcountry, too easy to fly, etc. I got the idea of a 180 out of my system years ago, along with the idea of a super-dooper cross country airplane (owned and had access to 3 of those, a TR182 and a T210 I partnered in and a 231 Mooney I flew for a friend). When I started looking for an airplane of my own, what I wanted was a 180hp, CS prop 172, that's what I bought, and although it cost me plenty when the engine came apart at only 15 hours after purchase, I've been very happy with it. And after landing, I don't say, "Geez, Cary, you suck as a pilot."

Cary

You really have two separate questions. You will not like my answer to the first but will like the answer to the second.

Your airplane is no longer airworthy, Buyers will want to pay less for it than what they would pay for it with a run out engine. If you overhaul the engine, they will want to pay less than what they would pay for it with a run out engine plus the cost of the overhaul. An airplane that is not airworthy is difficult to finance. You are in a no win situation, hopefully you bought it right and can make out but if not get over it and move on.

Stop thinking about it and buy a tailwheel airplane. I have enjoyed hundreds of hours of shooting landings on grass strips here in Michigan since I bought my first 170B as a student with 12 hours in 1978. I am on my fourth 170 now, a 180 hp 170B and have had a 170B, a Cessna 140, a 150, a 180H, a 310Q, a A185F, a 170B, a 170A, and have another 180H project which will take the place of the 170 when finished. Don't let low time and no tailwheel time stand in your way, good instruction and practice is the key to success. You may have to travel farther to find a good tailwheel instructor now than I had to in 1978 but it truly makes a difference. Derek or Jerry at Northwoods Aviation up in Cadillac, MI (I see you are in Grand Haven) both do an excellent job. Derek has his Supercub on floats this time of year but it is on wheels in the fall and spring and skis in the winter. They use a O200 J3 for tailwheel endorsements this time of year. Derek owns a pponk early 180 and also has a 185 on amph floats. Derek has checked out numerous pilots in the owners 180/185 and they both have thousands of hours of dual given. A good instructor and quality training will make checking out in your new airplane a fun, enjoyable time. Remember you do not have to be the "ace of the base" on the first day and if flying local can pick the day to match our skill and experience. This does not mean to only fly on nice days but to match the day to your skills and keep pushing to do better. If the wind is down the runway at home go find a runway with a cross wind for example.

So, do what ever your check book lets you do with your current airplane and start looking for what you want.

Tim

Thanks everybody!


Thanks Tim, luckily I did buy this airplane for the right price so I will not lose any significant money on it even as it sits...trick will be finding the next at a decent price!

Cary wrote:I can get a TW down safely, but I really don't like saying after every landing, "Geez, Cary, you suck as a pilot." ....

Cary

LMAO!

Id buy a 170, with a 180hp if you can afford it. I was a 90 hour 172 pilot when I bought mine, and it was a little humbling at first, but with the right instructor and attitude I think you will make out just fine. Though a cub is nice too. 180s are just too popular IMHO.

think of it this way....if your wife doesn't want you to fly, and you don't have anywhere to go, with a 180 or a super cub in the hangar you can atleast sit there and drool over it!

Not wanting to change the plan but every time I have needed an inexpensive plane that is a blast to do takeoffs and landings (IMHO the only fun part of flying), I have bought a 170, to date three 170B's and a 170A. I've always flown the 170's only until I find a 180 or 185 that I want. No one here talks about it but when you show up on the ramp in a tail dragger the general perception is that you are more experienced and skillful pilot, that was true even in 1978 when I was a student pilot flying a 170B.

If you plan to fly on floats, and can find a place to keep one or buy a house on a lake, here in Michigan a Supercub will open up hundreds more lakes for your use compared to a 180.

Tim

If you want a 180 or a Supercub, and can afford one, just go for it! I wanted a 180 for many years and talked myself out of it- "costs too much", "too expensive to operate", "more airplane than I need", etc. But I finally bought one last fall & am so glad I did.

The 180 & the Supercub are two very different airplanes, suitable for different missions, but both are great airplanes. Pick which one matches more of your mission requirements & start shopping. I consider both as being benchmark airplanes, models that a lot of other airplanes are compared to, and as a result both are often over-priced. But there are some good deals to be found out there if you look hard enough..

Having owned a 180hp 172, 180hp 170B, 182, 1/2 of a 180, R182 (retract), 150, and a Zlin Savage Cub, all are fun. I echo Cary's thoughts about feeling a little bit of terror when landing in crosswinds, but I end at a different conclusion. I think that tailwheel airplanes are like a beautiful woman that is a little bit crazy, you always enjoy looking at her, and sometimes she slaps you for no reason at all. They keep you alert and a bit edgy. (Disclaimer: I am married to a beautiful woman who is not in the least bit crazy, so that example is a pure hypothetical one).

If money was no object, I would buy Aktahoe's bird or BigRenna's in a minute, because even on pavement, a bad ass 180 is beautiful. If money was a factor, and I was flying around the local patch alone, and was not in a hurry, I would buy CrazyIvan's Savage Cub in a minute. Door open flying in the summer, 4 gallons of mogas an hour, take off and land with the Super Cub boys, and have a Rotax that is cheap to maintain and has Toyota reliability. The Savage is light, and easy to put back in the hangar, has a ton of ramp appeal, will keep your feet exercised on the rudders, and will remind you that flying is not a spectator sport with any landing that is not on grass.

Also, go get about 20 hours of instruction from someone like Contact so you don't bundle the thing up in your first week.

Also, any time I took someone up in the Savage they had a smile on the entire time

Bob

SpamCanFlier wrote:Having owned a 180hp 172, 180hp 170B, 182, 1/2 of a 180, R182 (retract), 150, and a Zlin Savage Cub, all are fun. I echo Cary's thoughts about feeling a little bit of terror when landing in crosswinds, but I end at a different conclusion. I think that tailwheel airplanes are like a beautiful woman that is a little bit crazy, you always enjoy looking at her, and sometimes she slaps you for no reason at all. They keep you alert and a bit edgy. (Disclaimer: I am married to a beautiful woman who is not in the least bit crazy, so that example is a pure hypothetical one).

If money was no object, I would buy Aktahoe's bird or BigRenna's in a minute, because even on pavement, a bad ass 180 is beautiful. If money was a factor, and I was flying around the local patch alone, and was not in a hurry, I would buy CrazyIvan's Savage Cub in a minute. Door open flying in the summer, 4 gallons of mogas an hour, take off and land with the Super Cub boys, and have a Rotax that is cheap to maintain and has Toyota reliability. The Savage is light, and easy to put back in the hangar, has a ton of ramp appeal, will keep your feet exercised on the rudders, and will remind you that flying is not a spectator sport with any landing that is not on grass.

Also, go get about 20 hours of instruction from someone like Contact so you don't bundle the thing up in your first week.

Also, any time I took someone up in the Savage they had a smile on the entire time

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for the sales plug! No shame in that at all.

There was a storm rolling in last night and it was about 30 miles away. I was like, well.......hmmmmmm...... I can get a few landings in before it gets here. I waffled. Then I said the hell with it. It was moving very slow on the radar and the air was dead calm. I had about 8 gallons total in the plane and nothing worth noting in the baggage.




I stayed by the house, flew with the door open and did 5 short landings, just hanging on the prop till I cleared the 4-5 ft tall corn, cut the power once the tailfeathers cleared the threshold, pulled the stick all the way back, and worked the brakes and rudder till stopped. Then I retract the flaps, full power, tail up, wait 1-1000, 2-1000, 3-1000, pull full flaps, and then airborn again.



I walked out on the runway after I put the plane away, and really questioned if I want to get rid of this airplane.

I must be crazy.

From the sounds of things.....your mission is spot on super cub. Buy a good one right and it's hard to get hurt financilially. It's just the "definitive" airplane for so many reasons and missions. If later in life you want to fly long distances with friends and family....then you know what to do!

Bill

Did I hear in the background "just buy a Maule"
I second that.