I just saw this news article that the FAA will now allow pilots to fly while on antidepressants.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100402/ap_on_bi_ge/us_pilots_antidepressants

My number of data points is too small to be statistically valid, but I've known a few people who were on antidepressants, and I wouldn't even ride in a car with them!

Does anyone have anecdotal evidence of people who can function properly at the responsibility level of a pilot while on these mood altering meds?

Geeeeee.....

You don't think the pharmaceutical lobbyists were able to get the FAA to soften their stance about putting safety above all else in the aviation world do you? Our government doesn't work that way. Revoke a guy's certificates for doing a field fix on a nose gear, Hell yeah. But flying around stoned... No problem. Take two, they make you fly better.

Oh yeah, I heard the FDA was finally going to ban cigarettes too. About time.

Gump

This is something that AOPA has been working on for a long time, and is only for fairly limited circumstances - or rather, they have to satisfy specific criteria on their condition. And yes I know people who are on SSRIs in whose hands I would willingly place my life. Chances are most of you do too and don't even know it. My cousin the physician estimates that easily 10% of the population is on them.

I haven't read the details but early rumor was that these pilots will have to fly under a special issuance with regular status followup.

This is a good step forward but it is still way too restrictive. There are many unnecessary hoops through which a pilot must still jump to fly with SSRI's.

1) Be on them for 12 mo.
2) Only four (4) specific SSRI's are allowed
3) Requires a Psychiatrist MD eval (MONEY)
4) Requires Neurocognitive Psych testing by a Psychologist (MORE MONEY)
5) Requires special issuance on case by case basis (TIME NOT FLYING)

In my opinion (as a licensed MH Professional) a pilot Rx'd SSRI's should be allowed to fly based on two conditions>

1) A psych eval by a licensed MH Prof (Rationale: If you can't convince a licensed MH Prof that you should fly, you probably shouldn't be flying)

2) Current Medical

Finally, people take SSRI's for many off label reasons that have nothing to do with their MH states or only indirectly with their MH state (IE Premature erectile dysfunction, sleep, etc). I guess you might be depressed if your libido isn't so good.

Too make it clear, I am active commercial pilot, and not taking nor do I prescribe RX.

Good Discussion, hope we can keep it going.

I think if an airline let us know that they had pilots on meds like these, we would not fly. But then again we are just the ignorant masses. Like the president says, "give it a try for a while before we judge"

Tim

I have been thinking about this subject for a while. I have known a few guys with depresion problems and they do fine while on meds most of the time. Now and then the meds seam to not work quite as well as they are supposed to. Sometimes they feal so good they say WTF I feal fine, I do not nead these dang pills. Hard enough to have a plumber working for me with depresion problems. Did not show for a week so I canned is but. Think he flies for United now. Just another reason for Patrole guy to stay away.

Just put it at the top of the pre flight check list. Take meds----Check

Next it will be OK for pilots of B-52's with nucs on board. Or captains of balistic missle submarines to be on meds.

Sounds like a bunch of BS

Tim

qmdv wrote:I have been thinking about this subject for a while. I have known a few guys with depresion problems and they do fine while on meds most of the time. Now and then the meds seam to not work quite as well as they are supposed to. Sometimes they feal so good they say WTF I feal fine, I do not nead these dang pills. Hard enough to have a plumber working for me with depresion problems. Did not show for a week so I canned is but. Think he flies for United now. Just another reason for Patrole guy to stay away.

Just put it at the top of the pre flight check list. Take meds----Check

Next it will be OK for pilots of B-52's with nucs on board. Or captains of balistic missle submarines to be on meds.

Sounds like a bunch of BS

Tim

Did you forget your meds this morning Tim?

qmdv wrote:
Next it will be OK for pilots of B-52's with nucs on board. Or captains of balistic missle submarines to be on meds.

Sounds like a bunch of BS

Tim

How 'bout cops, firefighters, and truck drivers?

once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote:

qmdv wrote:
Next it will be OK for pilots of B-52's with nucs on board. Or captains of balistic missle submarines to be on meds.

Sounds like a bunch of BS

Tim

How 'bout cops, firefighters, and truck drivers?

Truck drivers?? I tell you first hand. There's some interesting characters out on the road these days!! And not just truck drivers! Too many ruthless, careless, selfish, rude, aggressive, and plenty of drivers (truckers and 4 wheelers) not paying attention to their driving and what's going on around them.

I guess it becomes less important based on the number of people that can be killed or injured. Maybe a taxi cab driver would be ok but not a guy that can launch a nuc.

Tim

It is astounding how many of the school shootings have been perpetrated by people on SSRIs. The highest profile cases were Kip Kinkel in Oregon and Eric Harris in Columbine, CO, but there have been plenty of others.

I found a website that tracks stories of SSRIs. It's completely biased, it only lists negative stories. Still, it's interesting reading.
http://ssristories.com/index.php

No, what's astounding is the number of people in the United States, and the rest of the world, who can't get through life without using mind-altering drugs.

Our forefathers have to be spinning in their graves, watching our species turn into a bunch of fat, lazy, whiney, apathetic little droolers, taking pills for every real or imagined ache, pain, and discomfort. Shame on us for being so willing to give up our spirit, and shame on the drug companies and practitioners who dish the crap out so they can make a buck.

Wolves preying on the sheep.

Gump

How about alcohol? I know a lot of people who would deny having a drinking problem, but just try to get them to go a week without a cocktail. They get on my case for NOT drinking, like I'm the one with a problem. I just tell them that I've never gotten into trouble for not drinking enough, but have gotten into plenty of it for the opposite.
Try taking a urinalysis for a job or whatever- of you smoked a joint a week ago (no I don't do that either) you'd probably fail, but if you get hammered every day at lunchtime-- no problem. Which one do you think s the real danger?

Eric

Alcohol, and cigarettes, both.

Talk about health care reform. How much of the cost of medical care in this country is directly related to those two items? Prescription drugs, illegal drugs, pretty much everything else is just a drop in the bucket compared to them. Throw in fast food, and we've got an unlimited supply of Walmart shoppers out there in their finest spandex for all the world to see.

All boils down to money, and the fact that people are gonna get high no matter what the consequences.

Gump

M5guy wrote: In my opinion (as a licensed MH Professional) a pilot Rx'd SSRI's should be allowed to fly based on two conditions>

1) A psych eval by a licensed MH Prof (Rationale: If you can't convince a licensed MH Prof that you should fly, you probably shouldn't be flying)

2) Current Medical


Good Discussion, hope we can keep it going.

As if you cannot find a shrink for sale. I say if you have the potential of killing 250 folks or more then you cannot have that job. Less that 250 and I guess it is OK as long as I am not on that list.

I kept it going

Tim

kevbert wrote:It is astounding how many of the school shootings have been perpetrated by people on SSRIs. The highest profile cases were Kip Kinkel in Oregon and Eric Harris in Columbine, CO, but there have been plenty of others.

I found a website that tracks stories of SSRIs. It's completely biased, it only lists negative stories. Still, it's interesting reading.
http://ssristories.com/index.php

SSRIs can't cure everything, including evil.

There are two issues here the underlying condition and then the side effects of the drug.

My point earlier was that there are plenty of cops, firefighters etc etc. on them. Maybe even the guys designing bridges and working the board at the nearest nuc plant for all I know. What makes pilots different.

once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote:

kevbert wrote:
My point earlier was that there are plenty of cops, firefighters etc etc. on them.

I'm pretty sure I met one of those cops the other night and it seems he may have forgotten to take his dose.

I have a new name for him now... tax collector.









Disclaimer: I know and love many cops and appreciate their service and sacrifice, but unfortunately, I have met some of the "bad apples" and my appreciation for them is growing thin.

once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote: What makes pilots different.

Let's see..

A 747 driver has about 900,000 pounds of airliner with 57,000 gallons of jet fuel hauling 500+ people around at Mach 0.85. I don't want to ride with that guy if he has a mental illness, physical illness, or is on anything stronger than an aspirin. I'm sorry, but if you have depression so bad that you have to be medicated, you don't belong in the cockpit.

And the same goes for a cop carrying a weapon, surgeon with a scalpel, or captain of a ship. Anybody that has to function under extreme stress and make solid, split second decisions, the outcome of which has the potential to effect large numbers of people.

I think I've ranted and raved here a lot about the government staying the hell out of private aviation. We'd have to really try hard to hurt anyone but ourselves. But if I buy a ticket on a bus, airplane or boat, I expect a certain level of skill and health in the personnel, and mechanical soundness in what I ride in.

Mother Nature and the laws of physics are not politically correct, and are very ridgid in the application of their rules. If you can't cut it, you're gonna get hosed.

And who the hell is going to issue these waivers? Our mental health professionals? Same guys who grounded Bob Hoover. What percentage of them are bigger nutcases than their patients? It's not like measuring a blood pressure, or glycohemoglobin level for a diabetic. There's no device like an EKG to show mental health status. It's just subjective bullshit, nothing but smoke and mirrors. And a new cash cow for the wolves.

Gump

once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote:My cousin the physician estimates that easily 10% of the population is on them.

Has something changed in human DNA over the past 100 years that requires 10+ % of us to be on drugs, when somehow we as a species have done without those drugs for a hundred thousand years before that?

Gump

GumpAir wrote:

once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote:My cousin the physician estimates that easily 10% of the population is on them.

Has something changed in human DNA over the past 100 years that requires 10+ % of us to be on drugs, when somehow we as a species have done without those drugs for a hundred thousand years before that?

Gump

Some members of the species have done better than others over that period of time

I'm not arguing the point that they are over-prescribed. The AOPA docs who shepherded this through would be the first to agree with you.

I just think that there are those big-iron drivers or cub pilots who I would trust depressed and on SSRI medications over those who are perfectly healthy and are perfectly qualified, but are still numbnuts. I think most of us would agree the proof is in doing it and not at the AME's office (or OKC.)