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Backcountry Pilot • Power lines

Power lines

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Re: Power lines

I was the guy following Motodave down the river at about 200 ft agl. I have flown this route tens of times but normally at altitude that puts me over the high tension lines running from the dam down to the Puget Sound area. I have to admit they had gone out of my mind as I concentrated on flying down the river. I was far enough behind that a climbing 360 got me above them in plenty of time.

Mea culpa, I should have remembered and warned of the wires before we got there.

Luckily we were flying generally to the North and at this time of year put us up-sun of the wires which makes them much easier to see I don't know if Larry or I would have seen them in time if we were down sun from the wires.

The wires here have some balls but not many. Would that make the eunuch wires vs male wires? The lower wires were definitely female wires.

Note to self.....remember where the effin wires are and pay attention to the power line markings on the charts.
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Re: Power lines

The good thing about wires and or obstructions found on a map recon is that we know to keep looking until we find them. The bad thing about no wires and or obstructions on a map recon is that it could change our orientation. Looking to confirm they are not there is inefficient and dangerous. Regardless of all preflight data, we need to look with the intention of finding wires and or obstructions.

I never made my pipeline loop without finding a wire, cell tower, or some manmade structure that had not been there the week before. Yes more Midwest than West. Guess which ones scared me the most!
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Re: Power lines

TomD wrote: ... I have flown this route tens of times but normally at altitude that puts me over the high tension lines running from the dam down to the Puget Sound area. ....


I didn't realize that you were talking about the main high-voltage lines crossing the north end of the Sauk River. There are a set of balls, one set, right in the middle, but years ago they faded from orange to invisible. PSA or Seattle Light or whoever ought to at least repaint them regularly.

I know a guy who claims he day-dreamed his way right into the "horizontal & vertical cable network" noted on the Seattle sectional, strung across the mouth of a canyon about 10 miles ENE of Arlington KAWO, but made it through in one piece somehow. That cable network is an antenna system for extremely low frequency (ELF) radio transmissions to submerged USN submarines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Creek ... io_Station

http://www.navy-radio.com/commsta/jimcreek.htm
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Re: Power lines

I always forget one. The cable from the cabin to the top of the vertical stabilizer saved me once. By second brood European corn borer, the irrigated corn was pretty high. Also by mid-afternoon the wire was swinging low. The wire bent the top of the rudder over on Mr. Behnke's Pawnee. I dumped and landed on the road and he put another rudder on and I went back to work.

It is not rocket science to put a cable on your airplane. It could save your life. Vertical stabilizers don't cut wires as well as gear and windscreen cutters and props.
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Re: Power lines

What is with this power line dream deal. I had dreams of trying to land in the city between all the power lines that crossed the street.

Me too!!!! I think it has something to do with the movie that Burt Reynolds was in where they landed a Maule in town to get beer. Also, my Dad was a Ag pilot and hit a few wires. The guy my Dad sold his business to didn't pull up in time with his Air Tractor and snagged some wires. He thinks I'm done for but the plane kept flying and he went back to the airport with hundreds of feet of wire trailing from the landing gear. When he gets back he finds it didn't hardly scratch the paint and the prop was untouched. Then he starts to think about how much it's going to cost. Luckily it was a line that was going to be replaces shortly so it only cost a few hundred bucks.
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Re: Power lines

The utility may have a thing they call "loss of revenue." I tangled with some lines years ago with a boom truck, and it cost some serious dollars, about 2 K anyway. In my incident, it just blew the disconnect, but didn't harm the wires, that would have cost extra :shock:
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Re: Power lines

Scary Thread.

Here is an interesting pic of some wire strike cutters on a helicopter.

Image

I do like the idea of a wire from the Fuse to the Vertical Stabilizer. Maybe it could serve a double purpose as an HF antenna for on board ham radio gear operating aeronautical mobile.
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Re: Power lines

The long line for the old analog ADF was there. You used the long line to tune and identity by Morris code.
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Re: Power lines

How would you layout the wire cutters on a fixed wing?

I've heard of P-51s cutting wires with their wings and props. Not sure if any modifications where made to facilitate wire cutting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis#Early_actions_in_Southern_Sinai

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Re: Power lines

If wing is not level, cutters are not an issue.
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Re: Power lines

I know a guy that used to fly a stretch of river (70-80nm) all the time, went under power lines he had no clue were there for at least a year. In three different spots, thin lines crossed out of thick timber 50-100' above the river. Wasn't until flying in a super cub, really putting along one day, that he noticed them; after that looked real hard and learned a valuable lesson...Lesson was that he needed to quit being a fucking idiot...

I also have two friends that have hit lines in similar scenarios, only one of them gets to tell the story around the campfire [emoji17]


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Re: Power lines

I hit two wires during my dusting days. Never saw one, only heard the prop change pitch, then had to circle back to see what was up. Just a notch in the prop and a broken wire. The next one I saw from about 20 feet; Hit square in the center of windshield ,rode the wire cutter over the cabin on to the wire to tail. The tail was pushed down but I recovered and went home. That one scared the shit out of me but didn't break the line ,only stretched it. A new windshield after the season and all was well.
Also tore down barb wire fences but was never a problem.
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Re: Power lines

contactflying wrote:If wing is not level, cutters are not an issue.


Just not sure I understand. So the wings would cut the wires?
That doesn't make much sense in my head. Seems if the wing was level it would pass between the wires. If your banked then the wing is more likely to catch a wire I would think.
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Re: Power lines

I am wondering how important speed is when hitting a power line or cable, and how it affects just what to do. Many of you may remember years ago when the tail of a military jet in Italy hit the heavy cable of a ski slope gondola, cleanly slicing though it and sadly allowing the cable car full of skiers to plunge to the ground. The videos below show how amazingly think that steel cable was. Amazing it could be sliced in one fell swoop.

Videos:






Anyway..so in a GA plane, say a cub at 70 knots vs a 182 at 140, are there different strategies in case of a SHTF scenario? Light and slow vs heavier and faster...just what to do.. ? I have seen images of planes actually hung up in some power lines. That's embarrassing eh ....Fly by wire takes on an entirely different meaning.

Image

Image
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Re: Power lines

MountainFlyerN22 wrote:
contactflying wrote:If wing is not level, cutters are not an issue.


Just not sure I understand. So the wings would cut the wires?
That doesn't make much sense in my head. Seems if the wing was level it would pass between the wires. If your banked then the wing is more likely to catch a wire I would think.


I think if the wings are not level, it does not matter if you have a cable cutter or not, you are toast!! The wings hit the wires, the wings fall off!! If level, the cable cutter hits the wire!
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Re: Power lines

Yes. Sorry about the confusion. It is extremely important to level the wings around wires. Level going over to keep from hooking one with the down wing. Level going under to keep from putting one wing in the ground and one wing in the wire.

Denali, that was an amazing report. That is a huge fighter/bomber. It is still amazing the cable didn't bring it down. I know of no Ag planes, even 802s cutting a high voltage transmission line or guy wire. Even million dollar jets go under the big lines on towers. Be careful on a long span in the heat of day. They sag way down.

I know it looks cool on the videos to make a steep level turn coming out of a cool backcountry LZ. It only takes one time hooking a wing on something to get over that crap.
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Re: Power lines

Thanks for clarifying. That's more inline with what I thought.
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Re: Power lines

33-year old - and still pertinent - advice from the helicopter folks:

https://robinsonheli.com/wp-content/upl ... c_sn16.pdf

Fly safely!
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Re: Power lines

iPat wrote:33-year old - and still pertinent - advice from the helicopter folks:

https://robinsonheli.com/wp-content/upl ... c_sn16.pdf

Fly safely!


The heli advice is good for the most part. But in some of the western US we can find highline logging where the cables might be over 500' above the valley floor.

Image

Plus, there are some really tall towers that have guy wires extending 1/4 mile or more from the structure.

https://medium.com/re-form/where-the-real-skyscrapers-are-hint-north-dakota-76b33694c99e#.p3jaw0i5d

This video suggests a minimum safe altitude is closer to 1000' than 500'. Skip ahead to about :20 seconds to skip the Lawyer required liability caveats....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x9Sk-SE8-E
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Re: Power lines

Cary wrote:Once in awhile I'll have a nightmare of flying into multiple power lines, with no way to go up or down to miss them. I don't know why the dream, because so far, I've never been surprised by power lines. I've flown purposely pretty close to ones I knew were there, though, and usually I've known about them because of watching for poles, or because I knew of them in advance.

For instance, there used to be wires strung before the approach end to 21 at Laramie, the typical 40' AGL type. I tried really hard when I chaired the airport board there to get them buried, but the best I could get done was to have orange balls attached to them. I haven't noticed whether the wires are still there. Over several years, we had a number of airplanes hit them, although no tragedies happened. One that I recall was a Baron that actually flew not quite low enough below them at night, sawing off the top few inches of the tail. The wires snapped, cutting power to the airport. I was told that he came into the FSS, fuming and accusing the FSS specialist of shutting off the runway lights just as he was landing.

Seeing wires is really, really difficult. I think I realized how difficult when I took an intro seaplane lesson some years ago in BC. One of the places I landed was at a cove (Montague Harbor) which requires flying under wires at 100' AGL/MSL, both coming in and going out--the wires are at 200' AGL/MSL. The poles are the big Erector set type, so they're really visible. The wires themselves, although they must be pretty thick because of the span, are almost impossible to see.

Another thing that is pretty visible when less obvious poles are used is the swath removed from the vegetation when the wires are strung. It usually runs pretty straight along the path of the wires and is pretty obvious from above. That justifies reconnoitering at some altitude before dropping down.

Although perhaps not as well known as Sparky Imeson, another experienced mountain/back country flyer and author, Fletcher Anderson, died in a wire strike incident, flying a CAP 182 low along the Snake River in 2005. So even experts who supposedly know the territory aren't immune. As the sergeant in Hill Street Blues used to say at the beginning of each show, "Let's be careful out there!"

Cary

Your mention of having dreams of not being able to miss power lines reminded me of a similar reoccurring dream I used to have when I was younger (before I became a pilot). My dream was always the same...I am piloting an airplane and am barely above the ground and telephone wires are passing over the top of me one after the other preventing me from flying up through them. After a a minute I pick my spot between wires and just go for it pulling back on the yoke. I hold my breath as I climb between the wires fully expecting to hit the wires and crash. I never it them, and then I wake up. My brother had the same dream. Anybody else? Go figure. ...BTW, my dad was an airline pilot.
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