Weird question but has anyone ever used any kind of battery pack or portable power supply to run their tanis heater? Curious if this is an option in the back country rather than a 20 lb generator.
Thanks,
H Nay

I have spent some time studying this very thing, as I have a Tanis on my Scout... So far, other than a portable generator, I have found nothing..sure would like to tho...

Hard to believe any battery pack that would have enough energy to preheat a engine would weigh less than 20 lbs.

Suppose you have the following:

https://www.tanisaircraft.com/product/p ... l-2925-115

That says it needs 2.1 amps for 6 hours. That's 12.6 amp hours, so not terrible, but at 115v, and you also need to account for conversion losses.

Suppose you used one of these:

https://amzn.to/2VfFZY6

And lets assume it looses 25% in the conversion:

2.1A * 115v = 241.5 watts output = 241.5(100)/75 = 322 watts input = 26.83 amps input * 6 hours = 160ah battery.

Now lets look at very high energy density batteries:

http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... el-GoPACKS

That one is 5.2 amp hour, is 11.1 nominal 12.6v charged and weighs 410 grams.

You would need 32 of them in series, which according to my math is around 30lbs.

So the answer to your question, is:

Get a red dragon, or a northern companion, or roll your own with a camp stove:



That's pretty similar to what I have, and if I am stuck, I can make coffee!

akschu wrote:...

So the answer to your question, is:

Get a red dragon, or a northern companion, or roll your own with a camp stove:



That's pretty similar to what I have, and if I am stuck, I can make coffee!

Haha...yup. $140 MSR Dragonfly stove, ten bucks worth of ducting parts, and a quart of avgas. Last week a similar system brought my oil and cylinder (and battery) temps from 14 degrees fahrenheit to 59 degrees fahrenheit in the amount of time it took me to break camp and let the sun melt the frost off the wings.

Simple answer to OP question: Nope.

And no math was flawed in this determination.

MTV

A generator is the only option I see to run the Tanis heater.

I use a whisperlite, takes 1 - 2 hours if its cold - 12F.

Im trying to get this set up working for faster preheating, but the Buddy heater is shutting off when I attach my heat recovery shroud. Haven't worked out why yet.

daedaluscan wrote:A generator is the only option I see to run the Tanis heater.

I use a whisperlite, takes 1 - 2 hours if its cold - 12F.

Im trying to get this set up working for faster preheating, but the Buddy heater is shutting off when I attach my heat recovery shroud. Haven't worked out why yet.

I think those heaters have a low oxygen safety switch. It prevents people from suffocating themselves in a tent or enclosed space. Your collector shroud might be blocking the fresh air to the sensor?

There's very likely a safety thermostat or other device sensing somewhere in the Buddy heater shown. Reflective heat from the bright metal shroud and/or lack of sufficient airflow to carry away heat from the catalytic burner. They are made to be used uncovered to allow natural heated airflow and infrared emissions. My guess. Disabling the thermostat might melt the unit.

Oxygen sensor as Z noted: https://www.mrheater.com/index.php/down ... arning.pdf

Gary

I really haven't had the time to look into it. I think it is the draught from the pipe causing too much flow over the pilot light sensor. It works fine without the ducting installed. I am trying to make a baffle to direct the draught away.

I did shorten the shroud in length as I initially thought that it was restricting oxygen flow to the burner. I may try with a 4" duct to reduce the airflow, I wanted the 5" to get more heat under the cowling faster.

One serious caveat with these setups is that it would be a shame to burn an airplane up trying to preheat. Caution and a fire extinguisher. No dripping gascolators.

mtv wrote:Simple answer to OP question: Nope.

And no math was flawed in this determination.

MTV

I like math.

I've had one similar to one of these (http://www.mrheater.com/15-000-btu-sing ... -1730.html) for 35 yrs. Mainly for ice fishing but also for outdoor use. They also make one that attaches directly to the bulk tank. I've run the unit vertical to cook and had a stove pipe above to direct the adjustable heat level.

Airplane heaters I've used:

Propane heater above
Red Dragon 12V-propane
Various catalytic units burning white gas cooking/lantern fuel
Coleman white gas lantern
30,000 BTU kerosene-120V space heater
Camp cook stoves burning white gas - single and two burner
Tanis 120V electric contact heaters

Today I prefer a 120V hot air heater system (https://amzn.to/2Rn4eEJ) plus contact heat pads on the oil sump fed by a generator. Safer.

Gary

Thanks guys you gave me the answer I was looking for. I did not think it was possible but just had to ask in case someone is smarter than me. I have liked the MSR stove home made heater version. Does anyone have a diagram with parts list so someone could make one? I could go based off the pic but its easier to just ask if someone already invented the wheel.
I'm just say'in!

gypsywagon wrote:Thanks guys you gave me the answer I was looking for. I did not think it was possible but just had to ask in case someone is smarter than me. I have liked the MSR stove home made heater version. Does anyone have a diagram with parts list so someone could make one? I could go based off the pic but its easier to just ask if someone already invented the wheel.
I'm just say'in!

So the MSR Dragonfly is the only stove I've found that will run reliably on 100ll. It's also about as loud as a jet engine, which is a good thing when you're pre-heating, because you know instantly if it has gone out. They do occasionally go out, and it's important to vent the gasses out of the ducting before relighting the stove, lest you get a fireball you didn't plan for.

Once you have the stove, just take it to any hardware store and find a piece of ducting that the stove will fit in, and that a dryer or scat hose will connect to. You'll probably have to modify the ducting a little...air intake holes and maybe a cutaway for the stove controls. It's also good to have something for the stove to sit on other than dry grass, like a thrift store pie tin.

If you're really clever you'll attach something up under your cowling for the duct to attach to so you can position the hot air exactly where you want it. I just jam my dryer hose up there under the oil pan, but I know there's a more elegant way of doing it. In windy conditions, having the ducting anchored inside the cowling will be more than just convenient.

A word to the wise...play with your stove for a bit BEFORE using it to preheat. Stoves are temperamental things with unique personalities, and it's best to get to know your stove while boiling water, not while ducting its' heat into the cowling of your airplane. Some people recommend a spark arrester somewhere in the ducting, and while that's probably not a bad idea, I've never seen the need for one. A properly functioning stove doesn't throw any sparks.

Here's a sort of crude version with rigid ducting, and while it worked fine, flexible ducting seems to work better:


This is what I use now...just a random piece of metal furnace ducting that I slightly modified and attach a dryer hose to.


Or you can spend $900 on a Northern Companion Heater and have a much sexier, but probably no more efficient source of heat...

If you have a 10W-20W pv panel (mine fits on the hat shelf and keeps the battery trickle charged when outside), you can use it to run a small 12v fan through a tee with the MSR. It easily halves the preheat time, or more.

daedaluscan wrote:...I use a whisperlite, takes 1 - 2 hours if its cold - 12F.
Im trying to get this set up working for faster preheating, but the Buddy heater is shutting off when I attach my heat recovery shroud. Haven't worked out why yet.

Most small heaters (both electric or other) have high-temp safety switches.
If there's not enough airflow through your ducting, the heater gets too hot and trips that switch.
I had this issue trying to use 3" alum flex on a milkhouse hearter years ago.
Switching to larger flex eliminated the problem.

Leaving the combustion heaters aside for the moment, what the world needs is a quality generator that is half the weight, size, and capacity of the current smallest Honda/Yamaha's now on the market. Something that would possibly use the Honda mini 4-stroke series of engines perhaps https://engines.honda.com/models/series/m4. The only gen sets smaller are no name junk of dubious quality.

I bought a Yamaha 1000 watt gen set last year, to run my crane's air conditioner (4 to 600 watt draw), it's as highly regarded as the little Honda, but 1 lb. lighter. Also for possible use for winter ski camping, though not yet (brrrr), Still, pushing 30 lbs,, 27 I think. I also ride ebikes, and for both them and the plane's electric pad heaters (oil tank and the case) only need 300 watts. I seriously think (probably delusional though) there would be a market for a 4 or 500 watt gen set, if it could stay around 15 lbs max. It wouldn't even have to produce AC power, DC would work fine for resistance heating.

Meanwhile, I pre heat my plane (the hangar is heated to about 50 degrees all winter, I still pre heat so once fired up I don't have to sit there and warm up, it's ready to go) using the pad heaters, with the electricity coming from my grid tied solar system so it's in effect free.

I use a Rieff turbo heater system. 6 band clamps and two oil pan sump pads. 850 watt. Bought a 1000 watt Honda inverter. 28 lb. plus gas. Will charge my battery also if needed. The motor is sized well enough that it’s not struggling at 3650’. Not the answer the OP wants, but I like it. Doesn’t rely on a warm battery source, or a charged battery. I run it on 100LL so the carburetor is always clean and varnish free. A cup full from my gascolator or when I sump my tanks is all it takes to run for an hour.

I have somewhere a a small red toolbox that contains a squirrel cage blower and flexible duct and a small propane bottle. All powered by 12V
that I used to heat my 180 for years.It was made in the USA and was less that $150 at the time. Although I don't use it any longer it worked extremely well. About 30 minutes would warn up the engine.

I put my Yamaha away for the year yesterday, first inverting it and dumping out the remaining gas into a container. Then I started it and set it outside to use up the last of the fuel in the lines......it took at least 10 minutes, the thing is amazingly fuel efficient!

A couple years ago I had an idea to winter camp in one of the ranger cabins at Chamberlain Basin. There are several, and most importantly they have a woodstove, and are empty all winter. Instead of just doing it, I made the mistake of getting ahold of the controlling legal authority, and was told by a Forest Sevice geek "no way, ain't gonna happen." That's what I get for asking first, especially as it would be extremely doubtful they would ever know, and it wouldn't hurt a damn thing. I'd take the Yamaha for that trip, and the DVD player and some lights, something about watching a movie in the middle of a wildnerness area oddly appeals to me. Popcorn maker also.