I have tried unsuccessfully to get glider pilot collaboration on positive wind management in powered airplanes. Don't worry about looking dumb; I can teach you that in just a few posts.

I will try now with powered pilots. How have you managed wind in a way that made it a friend rather than an enemy?

How could a 40 mph wind speed impact our touchdown ground speed on a forced landing in very rough terrain?

When I took my private checkride 44 years ago next month, my crosswind capability was as close to nil as it's possible to be. The wind seldom blows in Anchorage, so I had the theory down, but not the practice. A 3-4 knot crosswind resulted in crooked landings, and comments from the DE that if I was going to fly in Laramie when I left the USAF, I better learn crosswinds.

I'd been flying at Laramie for several months when my instructor called me to say "today's a great day to learn crosswinds--straight down 21 at 25-30 knots". "How will that teach me crosswinds?" "We'll use 12-30." All the way out to the airport, all I could think was that the maximum demonstrated crosswind capability of a 172 was only 17 knots--how could it be done with a 25-30 knot crosswind?

We took off on 21, but then turned downwind for 30. My first attempt was dismal--couldn't begin to line up on 30, But my CFI then took control, and he showed me that he could do it. If he could, so could I. For the next hour or so, we did a series of landings, first on 30, then on 12, back and forth, until I could handle extreme crosswinds from both sides. All were to a full stop, so that I could experience the need to add more and more control as the airplane slowed, and so that I could learn the proper technique to safely take off again.

I learned several things that day about crosswinds:

+A little extra airspeed (to account for the gusts) is good; too much isn't, because it makes the airplane harder to control as it slows after touchdown.
+No flaps, or at most 10 degrees, is good; more flaps makes the rudder less effective.
+Slipping all the way down final is really uncomfortable and doesn't accomplish much.
+The wind at touchdown is usually less than the wind in the air, even as little as 10-20 feet above the runway. That's why a long slip doesn't accomplish much.
+Crabbing until just before the flare is good, but attempting to "kick the rudder" to line up at the last moment isn't--much better to transition to a slip just before time to flare. +If there's enough rudder to line up with the runway, there's more than enough aileron to stay over the runway.
+Taxiing can be more difficult than landing and deserves every bit as much care.
+Keep flying the airplane all the way to the tie-down, using correct control inputs constantly.
+Taking off requires just as much control input as landing.

That lesson was more than 43 years ago. Since then, it's proven to be one of the most valuable individual flight lessons I've had, allowing me to get into destinations that otherwise wouldn't have been possible.

Cary

contactflying wrote:How could a 40 mph wind speed impact our touchdown ground speed on a forced landing in very rough terrain?

Since my PA-22 lands at 50 mph, an emergency landing in 40 mph wind should be ground contact at 10 to no more than 15 mph so long as I conduct the emergency landing into the wind. On the other hand, if I mess up an conduct the landing with the wind, I will touch down at 90 mph or greater. Huge mistake.


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I angled across the runway from the downwind corner to the upwind big airplane touchdown zone on all crosswind landings for years. My math ability is basic. Other than never running out of rudder, what were my percentages of increased headwind component advantage? I realize runway width is a factor.

Other things being equal in a crosswind approach, will a downwind or upwind base to final turn require the greater bank angle to line up on the centerline extended?

contactflying wrote:Other things being equal in a crosswind approach, will a downwind or upwind base to final turn require the greater bank angle to line up on the centerline extended?

I can't answer that question because I would use a rudder turn since I try never to climb high enough to use banked turns.

Love your work

Jughead

Excellent answer Jughead, you just made Sergeant of the Guard.

Your work is more poetic.

Phillips is hydrostatic testing their La Junta to Denver section of pipeline. They will over pressurize with water and we will patrol for leaks. The west wind is strong enough I will fly right seat so I can see well out the right front windscreen. You will be able to see only where we have been from the left seat.

We see a potential leak and want to reverse course and fly back down the pipeline toward La Junta. Which way, upwind or downwind, should we turn to get separation from the pipeline before using our cruise speed to start an energy management teardrop or P turn return to target?

Which way, other things being equal, do we fall off the target?

Hint. Fall off target the wrong way and we will end up in SE Colorado somewhere.

Using flight school math and geometry, perhaps I can draw a picture of the above problem without chalk board or actual terrain. Heading is a poor term in contact work, but we are directing our course generally about 330 degrees magnetic. The wind is out of 230 at 40. If I used a grease pencil to put a dot on the pipeline right of way, it would be well right in the right front windscreen.

To get a little separation from the pipeline (more or less separation needed depending on wind speed and direction ), I make a shallow energy management turn to 340 degrees for a short time. The length of time fallen off the target also depends on wind speed and direction.

Now with just a 16th mile separation, I pitch up to trade cruise airspeed for altitude and to reduce the horizontal distance needed to reverse course.

Slowing to a comfortable airspeed above stall, say 60, I turn at whatever bank is necessary to reengage the pipeline going the other way allowing the nose to go down as designed. My ground speed is now momentarily 20 at a very advantageous time. Had I fallen off the pipeline upwind, I would now be going 100 directly toward the pipeline and my bank would have had to be 90 to get back before being blown over the target. Yes I could have flown west a long time to get enough separation, but I would have to find the right of way going now 200 across the ground and made another very steep turn to engage. Falling off the target upwind is how things come unglued.

So when a pipeline pilot is observed reversing course to return to a target, using good wind management in a strong crosswind, some may say he is doing a wingover but he is just making a medium bank one g energy management turn.

Cary has mentioned somewhere that most high passes have continuous wind reporting, Given that information and the difference between where the nose is pointed and where our butt is going on lesser passes, we should find ourselves going up the ridge that has the lift. Should we have to turn back down the valley, we would be turning upwind giving us the slowest possible groundspeed and therefore fastest possible rate of turn.

On course powered aircraft thermalling involves flying slow in updrafts and fast through downdrafts for a net gain in altitude and groundspeed over time.

Seriously with Jughead's low ground effect approach, say a dogleg river approach, we don't want much downwind. It is amazing how wide the rudder turn of an airplane or even a hovering helicopter going downwind.

We spray crosswind from the downwind border to the upwind border for wind management in the turns and to stay out of our own poison. Occasionally the tactical situation requires spraying upwind and downwind. Working downwind we have to give poles/trees wider berth when rudder turning around.

The Valdez 172 pilot in the recent thread, "Pumping the Yoke..." has answered my original question in this thread, "How have you managed wind to make it a friend rather than an enemy?"

I think there are two main reasons few pilots really consider the question: 1. They are taught to avoid wind. 2. Most fly high enough that the nitty-gritty effect of wind is not as noticeable.

Necessity is a strong teacher. Where it is easy to get spray students to see the effect of wind, it is harder to get normal students to see it. Yet, it is everywhere, including a little help getting the nose light early in a nose geared airplane takeoff. Necessary? Not so often when not in a takeoff contest. Wait! It is necessary the one time it will make the difference in getting off in the space available. Much more serious is the downwind turn near the ground, like in some base to final turns. A little wind management goes a long way toward a safer upwind turn.