The topic of helmets has been pretty well thrashed in this thread: https://backcountrypilot.org/community/ ... ying-23766

But, flight helmets are just one part of Personal Protective Equipment, or PPE. So, I thought rather than muddy the waters on the helmet thread, I'd start a new thread on "everything else PPE".

Let's start with clothing: I still shudder when I see folks climb out of their aircraft, especially in the backcountry, wearing shorts. Shorts provide very little protection in the event of a fire, and probably aren't what you'd choose to wear if you're going to be boon docking in survival mode in the wilds.

Now, I'm a little paranoid, but being paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. Last time I flew an airplane wearing shorts I crashed. In major bug country. 45 miles from the nearest civilization. Fortunately, I was uninjured, the plane didn't burn, and I was able to summon rescue quickly. Luck was with me in this case, but it got me thinking more about what I wear while flying.

For many years, I wore Nomex flight suits for much of my flying, in compliance with the policy of the agency which I worked for. Military style Nomex flight suits will help you buy time to egress a burning aircraft. It's not really fire proof, but rather fire resistant. And, the stuff wears like iron.

The down side: These coveralls are pretty warm in summer. Nomex garments are also not really inexpensive. And, there is that "Oh, he's trying to look like Tom Cruise" thing that the neighbors may be thinking. Of course, same logic applies to helmets..... There are now other sources of "fire resistant" clothing, including Carharrt and others. Stuff is not cheap, but.....neither is new skin.

But, if you prefer not to go that route, consider wearing ONLY two types of cloth next to your skin: Cotton and Wool. Avoid synthetics unless they are specifically certified as fire resistant.

Both cotton and wool provide a LITTLE bit of resistance to fire. Not much, but again, fire resistant clothing is designed to protect you only long enough to egress that flaming wreck.

So, blue jeans are probably as good as most pants when it comes to protecting you from fire for that few seconds. Wool is a bit better, and, at least in winter is my absolute number one favorite fabric, but not for fire resistance, but rather hypothermia. More on this shortly.

Of course, there's also the matter of your upper torso. There are a lot more "flavors" of shirts that are made from synthetics like rayon or Poly.... fabrics. Again, cotton or wool are your best choices there unless you opt for one of the true fire resistant garments.

Gloves....aren't something most pilots wear in summer, for obvious reasons. I sure don't. But, I always have a pair of Nomex gloves next to me in the side pocket of my plane. Might not have time in an emergency to put them on, but.....Remember, your second most useful "tools" in a survival situation are your hands. First, of course, is your brain. In winter, I keep good leather (inherently fire resistant) gloves handy at all times, and good insulated mittens nearby in winter.

Foot gear: Our PPE policy in Fish & Wildlife was leather boots (again, leather is inherently fire resistant), or in seaplanes, hip boots as appropriate for conditions. In winter, an exception was for Bunny Boots, which are rubber. The philosophy there was that rubber is sorta fire resistant, but what is the greater risk: Frozen/Wet feet, or protection from fire?

But, when it comes to footgear, the ones that make me cringe are the folks I see crawl out of a plane wearing sandals or worse yet, flip flops. Again, even if there's no fire, what if you have to park somewhere overnight in difficult terrain? In the mountains of Montana and Idaho, nighttime temperatures often drop to the high 30s. I know, I know, you've got a -20 rated sleeping bag..... Or at least you DID till it burned up in the fire before you could get to it.

So, at a minimum, just give a little thought to what you wear when you fly, even around home, or out in the flat. Remember, you may land within a quarter mile of "civilization" but nobody may know you're there for some time.

So, there you go, my thoughts on PPE. Fire at will (pun intended).

MTV

Good thought. I'm with you on being properly dressed. Being based out of SoCal it's tempting to dress for the weather, but I always wear at a minimum hiking boots and pants. It's very easy to fly from 90 degree weather to sub-40 degree weather on a tank of gas around here. I always keep a down jacket in the bird too. In colder weather I have a set of leather motorcycle gloves I wear that are actually great for flying, offer some warmth but still have good feel.

Gloves:
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/spe ... ion-gloves

I like the normal non-Cruse guy look of forest service or regular firefighter Nomex. I buy it cheap on ebay. Nomex gloves wear like golf gloves if you get the part nomex part leather kind and small size. I go ahead and pay the piper for them. Radial burn shuts off blood flow and causes death of extremity. That includes head so sleeves over gloves, no bloused boots, and closing the neck below the helmet flap as on Army two piece Nomex. The firefighter stuff is two piece as well, perfect for taking a dump in the woods. USAF was responsible for that silly coverall Nomex. Air Force pilots have an enlisted man valet their cloths while using the facility I think. Have one for everything else.

I got my nomex shirt and pants from Bulwark. https://www.bulwark.com/

MTV-

Good advice.

Always dress for egress. It's not about comfort its about survival. I fly with nomex gloves, long sleeves, pants, and good hiking boots in the back country. I have nomex flight suits from my AF days but don't use them. I always try make sure my survival kit has appropriate gear should I survive the initial impact and or post impact fire.

Contact, I like creases in my Air Force nomex provided by my Army brothers whom I been on the ground with and supported from above many times in an A-10. All in jest fellas!! We are all on the same team!

MW

My opinion: be ready to spend the night in the environment most likely to occur.

Early morning, 04:00 PDT, and I was including safety gear along with my preflight and pre-heat. Made a random video:

MW, you're absolutely right. I got excellent support from your Phantoms for stuff my little rockets wouldn't move. All services use Air Force services when enroute because they are the finest. The C-5 $600 seat is what caused the extreme standardization, but we got to keep the Mickey Mouse helmet. The molded to head one would have given us heat stroke. Did A-10 have bleed air heater/air conditioner? Cobra did but Huey did not.

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20001207X03205&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=GA

This 25 year old accident report offers lots of hints on what not to wear, and maybe some ints on what to carry for non-helmet survival gear. Just read between the lines.

The pilot departed in a C182Q from Renton, Washington (KRNT). The airport is near sea level, and it was early April. After departure he climbed on course for several thousand feet to his cruise altitude. Forecast weather was for poor visibility in mixed rain and snow over the mountains. He made it across the North Cascades crest when his carbureted engine quit for undetermined causes. After he made a textbook perfect emergency landing he found himself in 5 to 10 feet of snow in a small opening in the forest. Not said in the report, but mentioned in WSDOT SAR pilot training was what he wore: A nomex summer flight suit over thin synthetic slacks and dress shirt, with loafers and thin socks on his feet. Because of weather it was several days before rescuers found, then reached the crash site. He perished from hypothermia before help arrived..

A mantra from the motorcycle world applies here: "Dress for the crash, not the ride."

Contact,

Yes the A-10 has great heat and air from the bleed system. It is actually quite roomy and fairly comfortable in the cockpit even with combat survival vest, maps, etc.

MW

MW, were you at Golden Eagle 82 exercise at Fr. Irwin? I met an A-10 there at 50' AGL just as we both gained military crest respectively on a small hill in the desert. I was flying a medevac Huey.

mtv wrote:..... Let's start with clothing: I still shudder when I see folks climb out of their aircraft, especially in the backcountry, wearing shorts. Shorts provide very little protection in the event of a fire, and probably aren't what you'd choose to wear if you're going to be boon docking in survival mode in the wilds. ....

Good to go!!

MTV, you’re right on all counts. In addition to fire, though, there’s water and ice. Once it gets wet, cotton is one of the worst fabrics for conserving heat. What are we to do about that in the winter? The obvious answer is wool, but I haven’t seen 100% wool pants outside of Brooks Brothers in a long time — maybe never. Silk works well as a base layer, though it’s expensive and the least amount of sweat makes it stinky.

I have some insulated Carhartt bibs I wear flying in the winter sometimes. Looking now at the label, I see that the outside is 100% cotton, the filler 100% polyester, and the lining 100% nylon. Depending on how you look at it, this could be the worst or best thing imaginable.

So, what about winter pants?

8GCBC wrote:My opinion: be ready to spend the night in the environment most likely to occur.

Early morning, 04:00 PDT, and I was including safety gear along with my preflight and pre-heat. Made a random video:

Ted,
The subject of this thread is Personal Protective Equipment, essentially stuff you wear. Survival gear is an equally important, but quite different subject. And, there are threads out there on that topic.

MTV

mtv wrote:

8GCBC wrote:My opinion: be ready to spend the night in the environment most likely to occur.

Early morning, 04:00 PDT, and I was including safety gear along with my preflight and pre-heat. Made a random video:

Ted,
The subject of this thread is Personal Protective Equipment, essentially stuff you wear. Survival gear is an equally important, but quite different subject. And, there are threads out there on that topic.

MTV

Foul weather gear? You wear it.

Contact,

I was not there then. I'm a bit younger. I have spent many rotations at Ft.Irwin both as an ALO and flying a Hog. Thanks for all you do.

MW

StuBob wrote:MTV, you’re right on all counts. In addition to fire, though, there’s water and ice. Once it gets wet, cotton is one of the worst fabrics for conserving heat. What are we to do about that in the winter? The obvious answer is wool, but I haven’t seen 100% wool pants outside of Brooks Brothers in a long time — maybe never. Silk works well as a base layer, though it’s expensive and the least amount of sweat makes it stinky.

I have some insulated Carhartt bibs I wear flying in the winter sometimes. Looking now at the label, I see that the outside is 100% cotton, the filler 100% polyester, and the lining 100% nylon. Depending on how you look at it, this could be the worst or best thing imaginable.

So, what about winter pants?

Merino thermals under your cotton layer. Wool against the skin.

StuBob wrote:MTV, you’re right on all counts. In addition to fire, though, there’s water and ice. Once it gets wet, cotton is one of the worst fabrics for conserving heat. What are we to do about that in the winter? The obvious answer is wool, but I haven’t seen 100% wool pants outside of Brooks Brothers in a long time — maybe never. Silk works well as a base layer, though it’s expensive and the least amount of sweat makes it stinky.

I have some insulated Carhartt bibs I wear flying in the winter sometimes. Looking now at the label, I see that the outside is 100% cotton, the filler 100% polyester, and the lining 100% nylon. Depending on how you look at it, this could be the worst or best thing imaginable.

So, what about winter pants?

In Canada anyway we've got these. Great for hunting too
https://www.gostwear.com/bill-wool-hunt ... gIKyvD_BwE
Realized you said 100% wool, the linked pants are 80% but they do make 100% wool pants too.

StuBob wrote:MTV, you’re right on all counts. In addition to fire, though, there’s water and ice. Once it gets wet, cotton is one of the worst fabrics for conserving heat. What are we to do about that in the winter? The obvious answer is wool, but I haven’t seen 100% wool pants outside of Brooks Brothers in a long time — maybe never. Silk works well as a base layer, though it’s expensive and the least amount of sweat makes it stinky.

I have some insulated Carhartt bibs I wear flying in the winter sometimes. Looking now at the label, I see that the outside is 100% cotton, the filler 100% polyester, and the lining 100% nylon. Depending on how you look at it, this could be the worst or best thing imaginable.

So, what about winter pants?

You’re absolutely right regarding the poor wet weather performance of cotton. As to wool trousers, do a google search for “wool pants”. You’ll come up with a bunch. Not cheap, mind you, but the good news is wool wears well.

MTV

I'll add a PLB, (Garmin Inreach) etc. attached to your person qualifies these days for PPE in my humble opinion. Hit SOS and the calvary is soon to arrive.

MW