Hi All,

Long time lurker, first time poster here. After growing up well exposed to aviation, but never having the chance to get my PPL, I am finally looking to make the jump, prompted by a recent relocation to Anchorage. My work schedule affords me 2 weeks off every 6 weeks, so I have the advantage of being able to travel elsewhere for training to take advantage of better weather/training. My end-goal mission is to have a Supercub style plane I can take for longer trips to both on and off airport locations, including some longer sojourns to the lower 48, particularly in winter. Float and skis would also (eventually) be in the mix. For these reasons, I would like to do my primary training in a tailwheel. How I do that is where I'm getting stuck:

1. Buy a plane to learn in from the start. My big hangup here is whether to go for a smaller, cheaper aircraft such as a J3/Tcraft, jump right to a Supercub/Husky (which is where I would eventually like to end up), or something in the middle like a 170/Stinson/Maule. Will I benefit from learning on any particular aircraft? Insurance in some of the bigger planes also is a concern.

2. Join a flying club with tailwheel planes. This seems to be my best bet for training, and I'm looking into the Knik and Alaska Star clubs right now. It doesn't, however, offer me the flexibility of longer trips down the road.

3. Train through a traditional flight school that also offers tailwheel training. I've looked at a few schools in the Anchorage area as well as Cub Air in WI (located near family, which would make a nice dual purpose trip), and Chandler Air Service in AZ (same story). I hate the idea of throwing money at rental airplanes, but this does give me a chance to really feel things out a bit before buying.

I'm above all interested with getting good, quality training and really learning to fly safely. At the same time, cost is a factor I'd like to keep reasonably under control. Does anyone have any suggestions relating to the above three options? And particularly for #1, are there are any planes I should gravitate towards/avoid?

Thanks for taking time to help out!

Tom

Welcome Tom. You are overthinking all of this. In the time it took you to write the post you could have taken your first lesson.

There is no perfect plane to learn to fly in, nor is there the perfect first plane- especially if you don't have a pilot's license yet. Just go fly in anything you can with a competent instructor and don't worry about the rest- it will all sort itself out as you move forward. Flying (and everything surrounding it) is not something that can be quantified or put into a spreadsheet. Thank the lord! It doesn't make any financial sense either. It is a spiritual, visceral experience which is exactly why all of us do it. So just go do it! As often and as much as possible. Have fun!

High Flight - John Gillespie Magee Jr

 "Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
of sun-split clouds, — and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of — wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there,
I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air....

Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace.
Where never lark, or even eagle flew —
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
– Put out my hand, and touched the face of God."

My 2c. If you know you will complete this, buy a plane and learn in it. I wish I had.

I did buy a plane to learn to get my PPL.
I knew it would keep me motivated to complete training.
That being said, ownership brings its own learning curve also.
If you’re up to both, jump on in!
I’ve never regretted the decision.
Don’t worry about the Perfect first plane. As mentioned earlier, they are all wonderful in unique ways. Your desires can change as your ability and interests do.

Chaz

Welcome!

If you can afford to buy an airplane, and you buy right, that's the most economical way to fly. If you buy wrong, it's the least economical. The best airplane to train in is the best airplane available to you where you're at. Spending thousands of dollars on inspections and travel to look at one airplane after another, spread out across the country, is not good economics. Cessna 120, Cub, Stinson...doesn't matter, as long as it's a good airplane and you buy it at a price that allows you to resell it easily.

Don't worry about getting your dream plane right away...that will not make you a better pilot...probably make you a worse one. An anemic airplane teaches you about the medium you're operating in, while a powerful airplane just teaches you about the throttle.

Insurance is a factor. Maul insurance is about twice what Cessna insurance runs for the same hull value, and Husky insurance it three times as much. Learning in a tailwheel will mandate expensive insurance premiums, so a lower hp and lower hull value is advantageous. I'm guessing a Cessna 120/140 will be have the lowest premium, but that's just a guess.

Don't think of rental as "throwing money away", any more than you think of insurance that way. With a rental you're not on the hook for repairs, and your ham-fistedness as a new pilot is being honed on someone else's airplane, not yours. Flight training is NOT good for airframes, or engines, or tires. Hourly rental rates seem expensive until you need to do a top-end overhaul on your engine or replace a landing gear box, at which point they seem positively reasonable. Lots of people can afford aircraft rental, but not aircraft ownership. That it's cheaper to own in the long run is only relevant if you have the money to begin with.

Flying to the lower 48 during winter in a super cub? Might want to do some more research on the actual viability and feasibility of small airplane travel. Gas alone will cost you several times what a commercial ticket costs...never mind the weather delays, hotel bills, meals, car rental, and the commercial ticket you'll end up buying to get back to work...

Insurance in a tailwheel airplane with no time is going to be very very expensive, so either you pay the price, or your instructor provides the insurance (and you aren't insured solo), or you rent.

I'd get some quotes on some different aircraft and run the numbers.

To echo what other people have said, don't worry about owning your dream airplane right now. Airplanes are full of compromises, and you aren't even in a place to understand what those are until you have 100 hours.

All that said, here is what I did: I bought a cessna 150 for $20k, flew it for 100 hours, and sold it for $20k. Now I'm in a cessna 170, and while it's not anywhere near a 180 or super cub for performance, with two people and my climb prop it does okay, certainly way better than the 150.

Now that I'm here, I know exactly what I want, and taking baby steps to get there.

Here is a good option for you:
http://alaskaslist.com/-3/posts/10_Tran ... _F_19.html

I would get started on your flight training and immerse yourself in the aviation culture before you commit to buying anything. Flight training is pretty cut and dry...for the most part you know exactly what is expected of you before you can move on. Aircraft ownership is not such a friendly beast.

You won't know what you don't know without a lot of help when you are starting out. Take the time to make friends and connections. Ask questions. Find experienced pilots that can help mentor you outside the flight training environment. One thing we all do in some fashion is develop our own little aviation support network, and the sooner you start, the better. The thought of owning an airplane without that support network in place is both frightening...and expensive.

Becoming part of the community will help you with things like finding hangar space or learning which repair shops to avoid. In many places you may have to wait for years to find a hangar if you are not on the "inside".

Anyway, that's my advice. Start your flight training as soon as practical. Join the local EAA or other organizations and meet as many people as you can. Volunteer for events. Make pilot friends, especially those with similar interests. Ask the old timers questions, they usually love to talk if someone wants to listen.

Once you feel like you have the right people around you and a better picture of what you are getting into, go for it. As far as which plane to get I would get something that you can finish up your initial training in, but also get something that you can afford to spend all of your free time flying (don't get a 180 if your fuel budget is only $120/mo.). The small two place taildraggers are a great way to go as far as maximizing your time in the air, and really teaching you the skills you will need down the road. Trouble is, when you get ready to upgrade, you will want to keep it...and soon you will be single and own two airplanes.

Best of luck to you, your gonna love it!

Nomad wrote:Hi All,

After growing up well exposed to aviation,

Whoops, missed that part. In that case disregard half of what I said and go for it!

Welcome.

To chime in about the idea of traveling somewhere else for training- The airspace and procedures around Anchorage are pretty nuanced. If you intend to operate there once you have your PPL, getting instruction in the Anchorage environment will be a big leg up compared to arriving from, say, Arizona as a newly-signed off airman and having to work it all out on your own.

As for fixed costs of ownership, the Municipality of Anchorage as far as I know still has an aircraft tax registry, and tiedowns at many nearby airports can run $35/ month and upward.

My own experience getting a PPL in Interior Alaska was buying a $13K non-electric Taylorcraft and getting instruction in it. I rented a 150 at Merrill Field for the nighttime and VOR work, and I was fortunate for the exposure to Anchorage procedures that came with that. Sold the Taylorcraft for $14K after flying it to New England and back.

Welcome, and good luck,

-DP

Thanks for all the responses!

Definitely seems like I will be better off training in Anchorage area. I'm leaning towards renting for a while until I can find the right plane. I'm in the process of buying a 4plex in the area as well, so hopefully I can wrap that up quickly and have a chance to get started this summer.

As for flying south over winters-- I should have clarified, that would be more of an extended trip than as a means of getting from A to B. I'm by no means delusional to think that a small single will ever be a better choice than commercial across such a long distance. What I was thinking was taking several weeks to make the trip, stopping and camping throughout BC (an area I've wanted to explore for a while). Whether my first plane will be something I'd want to take on that trip is yet to be seen.

Learning in a TW will keep from having to unlearn bad habits from tricycle gear airplanes. Rent or buy doesn’t matter if you are learning the right things.

I've noticed that there's two types of pilots,those that fold under pressure and those that fly till it's turned off no matter what the challenge. In my very limited experience I have witnessed a person with low trike time buy a tailwheel only to find he couldn't safely manage the plane.
Of course it's up for sale and required cylinders right after purchase leaving the guy holding a hefty bill.
I flew a few hours to see if I could manage before purchasing a reasonable tailwheel to get my ppl. I have since murdered a engine with what seemed like a million landings and unintentionally learned how to own a plane in the process.
I don't know if I did it the right or wrong way but it sure is nice having a bird at my every whim.

Look at using a Citabria or Decathlon for your training... I would suggest the 150hp models are very good for initial training.
The insurance rates are some of the most acceptable for low-time pilots and you can sometimes find them where "tailwheel endorsements" are advertised, if you are looking to rent that type.