Theoretically every airplane at the same altitude gives every pilot clear line of sight of the hemisphere to their front. It would seem that each pilot would be dependent only on those behind him for avoidance.

There are problems with this concept. It is unlikely all will be at the exact same altitude. Those slightly lower can easily get lost in ground clutter. Those slightly above can easily get lost behind our high wing unless we have our seat full forward and our head above the panel. Also we lose half the hemisphere in a turn with a high wing airplane. Those well below can easily get lost under our low wing but our eye to leading edge angle is much better in a low wing. Unless we move our head regularly, anything on the top of the panel (compass, GPS, approach plate booklet, etc.) will block our view to our front. Ground clutter has always been a problem for all aircraft and is only getting worse.

Those who do low level work like spraying or pipeline patrol have a tremendous advantage in this respect. They only have to worry about other spray or patrol aircraft behind them. They can see everything above their low altitude in the hemisphere to their front.

Very timely post.
I came back form opening my friends cabin for the winter two days ago. It was a clear day but the sun was getting low. Locals put sun at there back for landing to the North in afternoon. Cessna doing touch and go's, a cub crossing midfield from east to turn downwind and me coming from Northwest. I was over water so stayed high until I could see other planes. Cub took lead on downwind, than Cessna, and I pulled in behind. As I entered downwind the Cessna was flying straight into the sun with me directly behind him and I could not see him. This was expected, I knew where he was but had no good visual once I was behind him. I pulled it back to 55 (got to love a cub) and held heading until he called base and turned downwind. Once on base I could see him again. Followed him in for normal landing.
I have a basic landing pattern I like to use but practice with every change I can think of. Pattern altitude from 100 to 2,000 ft and speeds from full flap crawl to no flap dive it down, very tight, and bigger patterns That way I am prepared for whatever the pattern/weather/traffic presents (I hope). Having a established landing sequence usually makes for a much better safer landing. But you have to step outside the sequence it is nice to have done it a few times before so you know what to expect. Be very careful with setting sun and dusty windshields.
DENNY

contactflying wrote:Theoretically every airplane at the same altitude gives every pilot clear line of sight of the hemisphere to their front. It would seem that each pilot would be dependent only on those behind him for avoidance.

There are problems with this concept. It is unlikely all will be at the exact same altitude. Those slightly lower can easily get lost in ground clutter. Those slightly above can easily get lost behind our high wing unless we have our seat full forward and our head above the panel. Also we lose half the hemisphere in a turn with a high wing airplane. Those well below can easily get lost under our low wing but our eye to leading edge angle is much better in a low wing. Unless we move our head regularly, anything on the top of the panel (compass, GPS, approach plate booklet, etc.) will block our view to our front. Ground clutter has always been a problem for all aircraft and is only getting worse.

Those who do low level work like spraying or pipeline patrol have a tremendous advantage in this respect. They only have to worry about other spray or patrol aircraft behind them. They can see everything above their low altitude in the hemisphere to their front.

Every time we take to the skies we are assuming a calculated risk. Every airplane has big blind spots. There are a lot of good practices we can do to lower the risk of metal meeting metal but nothing is fool proof. During my PPL training at a small uncontrolled field (albeit a busy one) I was walking back to the FBO following a solo training flight and I noticed some activity around the FBO with people running around with strange looks on their faces. One of the students of the Flight school had just departed on a solo flight and before he even turned crosswind he T-Boned a Bananza who was cruising along showing somebody some real estate next to the nearby town. After I realized what had just happened I went out and saw two columns of smoke rising into the sky on the nearby hill. A very sobering experience for me a pilot in training. It really made me think about what I was getting into. Yes, the Bananza pilot was very much in the wrong. He should not have been there. Nonetheless, everyone was killed. One in the C152 and three in the Bananza.

For the rest of my PPL training and also my IFR and Commercial training, all my instructors consistently commented positively on my diligence to practice good see and avoid procedures. It made me think, what is everybody else doing? Yes, It can happen to you. Most of the time you will not see them, but there are other planes out there. Expect the unexpected and do whatever you can to make yourself known. We don't have to go overboard and spend the entire flight looking for other airplanes. However, there are some very basic things we can consistently practice to lower the risk. Besides the obvious things we are trained in; I fly in area where their is a higher than usual amount of aircraft in the air (Seattle to Bellingham corridor) so I need to have my awareness sharp all the time and I usually don't fly in a level straight line for too long at a time. I will perform some big S turns and or just rock my wings way up and down periodically on my way to my destination. Think about it. How many times have we become aware of another plane just when it is banking into a turn? These simple things will help to make ourselves more visible to that other aircraft who is cruising along at the same altitude on autopilot which is almost impossible to detect if on a collision course. Of course, near the pattern my head is on a swivel and I am listening and talking. Like I stated, it is a calculated risk every time we depart. Midairs are extremely rare (a big sky up there) but you usually only get one chance. Not too many fender benders in aviation. Be safe, have fun.

Saw an interesting episode today. I went for my usual daily walk on the airport grounds and there was a C140 which belongs to the local aero museum doing touch-and-go's on runway 9. Winds were light but favoring 27. A C150 taxi'd out with a 16 year old student pilot on board. She taxi'd down and took off 27, right after the 140 had took off 9. She departed to the west, 140 kept doing T&G's on 9, everything's fine. After a while, I see the 140 turning right downwind for 9 and the 150 at midfield on a wider left downwind for 27. Hmmm. The 150 turned base then final for 27, about then the 140 was turning base for 9. Hmmm. The 150 landed & was rolling out when the 140 turned final, then a few seconds later powered up for a go-around.

I didn't have a radio but am curious as to what if anything was being reported and by who. And just when they saw each other. I would have thought that they would have seen each other on downwind, but if that was the case I'd think one of them would have done something differently. As apparently recommended by her airline pilot dad, the student pilot often makes just one radio call when on the 45 and that's all. The 140 is owned by the local aero museum, their planes are pretty notorious for not making radio calls-- even the ones that have a radio. As it turned out, this time nobody was in any danger but I've seen similar circumstances which resulted in some pretty close calls, when a timely radio call or two would have really made a difference. I've looked up after landing to see a windshield full of airplane on short final coming right at me, and it was not a pleasant feeling-- too slow to fly, no place to stop, and nowhere suitable to turn off the runway-- all I could do was speed it up to my exit. I did make an excited radio call to the effect of "hey dumb mother-fucker on final, I'm on the runway here" though.

I give the FAA a hard time on educational professionalism and accident analysis, but they score points with me both on air traffic control and on uncontrolled airspace. They do a good job controlling traffic where that is possible and they do a pretty good job keeping their nose out of where they have no control. At least they have chosen not to try to regulate uncontrolled airfields.

Yes, there are interpretations of training material and strong suggestions about how pilots should control themselves, but no regulations other than "see and avoid."

If we look at the midair problem around uncontrolled airports the way they do. we see that there are lots of things we can do to organize traffic somewhat and that no, we cannot control it.

Looking at what is most effective, overall, my many years and hours of experience have indicated to me that see and avoid is the very most effective.

I don't know how common this practice is...My instructor taught me to lower the nose on climbout and scan for traffic,especially before turning crosswind,or departing pattern.

MountainFlyer22,

You had a good instructor.

I teach energy management for all turns, especially at low altitude including in the pattern. That requires allowing the nose to go down in any turn and certainly not trying to climb and turn at the same time. If climbing, lower the nose. Next allow the nose to go down (no back pressure) in the turn. Resume climb if you wish. When coming back down, downwind to base and base to final, just allow the nose to go down (no back pressure) in the turns. Eliminates all that worry about skids, stalls, spins, etc. while getting lined up with the runway. Nothing bad happens if we just allow the nose to go down naturally in all turns and use the rudder. And we can see where we are going better.

The PTS requirement to climb to pattern altitude does not mean we can't use energy management in the turns and make all climbs wings level.

Contact

contactflying wrote:...I teach energy management for all turns, especially at low altitude including in the pattern. That requires allowing the nose to go down in any turn and certainly not trying to climb and turn at the same time. ...

I've been in plenty of situations where I had to spiral up out of somewhere in order to leave the area.
Refusing to maintain your climb in a turn would make that impossible.

Hotrod 180,

You got me with the volcanic caldera. But then I also always try to know which way an area drains. If no drainage for egress, I might not go there.

Contact

Perhaps I misspoke, let's try this.........."where I had to spiral up in order to leave the area without making a huge detour to avoid climbing turns (or turning climbs)". The Stehekin airstrip in central WA comes to mind-- a little spiraling up to gain altitude for a north departure is nice, or even more spiraling is required for a west departure. A down-lake departure is certainly possible but is going in the wrong direction..

Hodtrod 180,

I am just messing with your mind to make a teaching point. I know airplanes will engine climb. Cascade Pass is not real high. There should be great ridge lift with south through west winds. West through northwest is a little more complicated with having to cross to the better lift downwind ridge at some point.

I know airplanes will engine climb. I just don't "believe in" it, nor do I teach it as the first line of defense. It is almost impossible for an airplane to kill a pilot unless that pilot becomes unglued. Pilots come unglued when the situation, density altitude or poorly running engine or such, gets inside their Observe, Orient, Decide, Act loop. That is when what they observe doesn't fit with what they believe.

That is why I fight against the "belief" that airplanes will necessarily climb.

Thanks for keeping me honest.

Contact

Had a fun one today. Right as I'm finishing my run up, somebody in a Cessna makes a call for a 3 mile left base to 13, so I expedite my departure for 13. I'm only on my 2nd flight after my engine overhaul and didn't want to run on the ground too long, so that's my excuse for being impatient. Once I'm about 300 feet off the ground, the Cessna makes a call for final, so I peel off to the side and radio I'm leaving the area on a 45 to the west. A few seconds later the Cessna suddenly announces he's on a left downwind for 13, turns out he was on approach for 31 the entire time heading right at me, I'm guessing a student turned around on his cross country. I was pissed at myself for not seeing him, I took it for granted that he was in the pattern for 13 and got complacent. Lesson learned, I'll be watching more closely next time.

As hotrod 180 says, the radio can be helpful. As crazy old contact says, the radio can cause problems as well. As John Boyd says, Observe, Orientate, Decide, Act all repeatedly, all at once, in order and not in order. An active mind is an amazing thing. Computers don't even come close.

Here's an interesting statistic:

"Of the more than 5,000 public-use and 8,000 private-use airports around the United States, only about 500 are towered. Even the towered airports revert to uncontrolled airfields when the tower closes, which can cause anxiety in some pilots. Operations at non-towered airports are more hazardous than their tower-controlled big brothers. About 78 percent of midair collisions in the traffic pattern occur at non-towered airports."

So, if we consider only public use airports, only about ten percent of them are tower controlled. Yet, more than 20 % of midair collisions in the traffic pattern actually occur at tower controlled fields. If we were to add in non-public airports to the mix, the percentage of midairs that occur at tower controlled airports gets even higher.

My point is that many pilots abdicate their "see and avoid" responsibilities as soon as they contact an ATC specialist.

Remember, See and Avoid applies even or perhaps ESPECIALLY when you're entering class D or C airspace.....

One of my closest near misses was with another airplane coming right through the final approach at a tower controlled airport......tower never saw him....and he missed us by less than 50 feet.

MTV

mtv wrote:
One of my closest near misses was with another airplane coming right through the final approach at a tower controlled airport......tower never saw him....and he missed us by less than 50 feet.

MTV

I was on an instrument approach to KPWM, Portland Maine once, inside the class C and had a Citabria fly right across the approach in front of me, close enough to read the numbers. The controller was as surprised as I was.
No transponder and no clearance, not talking on the radio inside class C...There's just no telling what sort of shenanigans people will come up with.